trouble with One shot paint

[yvette rutledge]

HELP!
I'm new to the Forum but I've been lettering for many years, so please forgive me if this question has been asked before. In my shop, Mystic Blue Signs, in New Orleans, we do mostly hand-painted signs, and have used One Shot most of the time.
BUT lately it seems to be inconsistent, maybe even since they changed the formulas to remove lead? Most recently it seems that the always reliable black takes forever to dry and that a new can may be too thin or too thick when it is first opened. Can anyone tell me what is going on?
When I asked my supplier he acted like I'm from outer space. (And no, I don't believe it's as simple as our notoriously high humidity...)

[Doug Bernhardt]

Hi Yvette. Have noticed the same thing over the years here. It was actually about 2 years ago that I noticed the big change in drying times for the black in particular. One day everything was normal and the next opened a new can to the overnight drying issues. Basically I've just tried to get used to it and am using turps rather than paint thinner......or their reducers with hardener when I'm more desperate.

[Danny Baronian]

Noticed the same problem with 1Shot Quick size, sometimes it's ready to gild in 40 minutes, other times takes 2 1/2 hrs, and don't have a humidity problem to spake of. Too much of a variance to be reliable.

Now it's either 3 or 12 hour Luna, or a combination of the two

Danny

[Jerry Berg]

It seems a lot of people are using Ronan enamel now and say it's an improvement. I've not tried it yet.

I plan on buying some luna next time I need size and avoid any headaches. By the way, where do I
pick up Luna size?

[Danny Baronian]

Hi Jerry,

Luna can be purchased from Art Essentials of New York.

I've never checked for a west coast distributor, but I've found Art Essentials to be a knowledgeable supplier with prompt shipments.

Danny

[yvette rutledge]

THANK YOU!

I'm so grateful to know it's not just here. Sometimes when the humidity is high in New Orleans, it has taken two days for the background enamel (they tell me that One Shot and Chromatic Bulletin are the same company) to dry. I have had even more difficulty with the maroon or anything I mix it with. We will happily switch to Ronan for darker colors.

Has anyone noticed that One Shot reds fade faster than before? Right after Hurricane Katrina (2005) signs with red faded within six months. People said there were bad chemicals in the air, and more people had allergies. Now the reds seem to be doing better.

My next question was going to be gold-leaf size, because I've had a sign where the gold leaf inexplicably crumbled on the side where it gets afternoon sun. I always varnish, but I'm wondering if the problem was in the varnish or the size?
I've never used Luna. Can you tell me if your long-term results with Luna size outside are as reliable as you would like?

[Danny Baronian]

Hi Yvette,

did the leaf detach as in a size failure? Clear coats over gold is generally not recommended except for areas where it could be damaged from touching, or on vehicles to withstand washing. Without close up's of the work, it's hard to determine the cause. How old was the size, and how long has the gold been up that's crumbling?

The only clear coat that holds up well are two part auto urethane's. I never use acrylic or oil base clears on a sign, they will fail.

Hopefully Doug will comment on this, his conditions in Canada are more extreme weather wise than here in California, or New Orleans for you. I chose Luna on Doug's recommendations, as he's had work up for a year or more with Luna.

Look over this thread. It's about LeFranc , not 1Shot but it has information that could help narrow down the failure:

https://handletteringforum.com/forum ... f=2&t=2548

Danny

[yvette rutledge]

For about ten years a large iron cross that we gilded atop a local church has been exposed to the weather in New Orleans. We used LeFranc size on the recommendation of a New York supplier; we didn't varnish, it worked as it is supposed to and the job still looks great.
So we continued to use LeFranc unless we couldn't get it, preferring the quick version because the slow size sometimes would still be wet after a whole weekend away from the shop. The gold on the sign that failed flaked off after about a year, the side away from the sun was perfect.
I always varnish signs that can not only be touched, but that can be deposited upon by our local pigeon population, because trying to clean off said deposits (among other things like beer thrown up onto the sign by tourists in the French Quarter) results in loss of gold. The varnish protects it well. All other signs I've gilded in New Orleans in the last ten years have remained stable.
You may be right that it could be size failure--I'm not fond of the packaging of the LeFranc size, the can is hard to open and to stir, and it sometimes forms a skin that can't be easily removed.

I appreciate your expertise and your help with this.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Yvette, as Danny mentioned there's alot of reasons that it "Might" fail but I'd first look at the varnish. I've never had a gold leaf project fail but I rarely experiment on a "real" job....and I've almost never varnished it. My stuff is almost always out of harms way. The few times I have I used acrylic overcoats without incident....for instance on lower karats like 16 and 12k in particular.

[Patrick Mackle]

I have been adding one shot gold size and a little Japan drier INSTEAD of the recommended one shot reducer to one shot paints to reduce them for spraying onto glass signs.
It surely speeds up the drying time. My theory is that the gold size "spreads" or opens up molecular space in the one shot paint binding vehicle and pigment solids which allows for faster evaporation of the volatile component.
It works... (but be aware, that's just me thinkin' again)
Pat

[oatis]

I did a surface gold job in New Orleans in September of 1983. The assignment was to gild 10 ft. tall letters, incised into the curved face of a new green granite bulding at 1615 Poydras. The Roman numerals were located 325 ft.off the ground. I had a brand new girlfriend, and I invited her to travel from Denver with me to do the job, and she accepted. When she rode that window-washers rig 37 stories up on that first day, I knew I had a keeper. We tore up the French Quarter all night, then hung up on that parapet all day for 3 days. Very little sleep, lots of fun.

Rose and I have been together for 26 years and have enjoyed many artistic adventures since then.

Incidentally, we used Luco slow size and August Ruhl leaf. Everything looked great when I the work fifteen years later, though I suspect it may have been re-leafed by other hearty souls since then.

[Doug Bernhardt]

and hearty they would have to be!! Have always had a fear of heights and even 20 or so feet makes me want to wet my drawers!! No wonder I spent most of my years on a showcard bench.