Paint mask for Gilding Jobs

[DAVE SMITH]

I used a paint mask for this gilding job. I made two beveled glass signs cut a paint mask from the artwork I designed and
then painted the background in. My question is does anyone know of a thin paint mask on the market?, the one I use always leaves an edge which needs to be wire wooled before the gold is applied to help it sit and flow tight into the raised paint section. It works but I would imagine a thinner material may help and eliminate the wire wooling. I also use the ivory soap to help the size flow. I only do it this way for speed on some jobs..

Thanks
Dave

[Mark Summers]

Not sure how this will do buy I thought of airbrush frisket. It is low-tac
and I'm not 100% sure about the mill thickness but you can call
Bear Air and ask them. Not sure how clear will work for you either.
You are right, most paint masks are on the thick side. Let us know
if you find something.
http://www.bearair.com/searchprods.asp

Mark

[erik winkler]

Dave,

As you might know I encounter the same problem often, since I am a masking fan.
In my opinion it comes down to three things:
1. Removable glue.
2. Adhesion power in Newton per square cm (on steel is the marker).
3. Thickness of the material.

Well for number one, it is just a given fact: must ofcourse be removable glue.
For number two, it is up to you to give your favourate adhesion strenght: 2,10Newton/cm2, maybe weaker or stonger.
I have found a film that is 70 micron thick, if anyone can find one that is thinner and will not break when removing it after painting, please tell us.

Erik

[Stuart Norton]

Hi I'm Here

Dave check your emails.

Dave how about 7 year vinyl must be very thin but hard to get off. When in the old days of hand cutting. the good old days. We used fablon one year it changed glue and left residue. to stop this we first applied a thin coat of whiteing and water let it dry. Applied the fablon over this and it weeded out with no residue of glue left. Held up to blasting ok. so 7 year vinly as a paint mask should work. but try a sample first. And dont ring me tomorrow as we are out on the road.

[Patrick Mackle]

Dave,
I'm thinking that you are applying your computer cut spray mask onto fresh glass, and then applying your background paint.
After the paint dries, you are peeling off the paint mask, then water gilding down your gold. And this is when the "paint ridge"
is keeping the gold from bonding.

If this is indeed your method, you could try this.
Thin your background paint down a little thinner so that it almost loses it's ability to cover fully in one coat and pulls back thinner from it's own edge. (That is, as you have
noticed how unthinned paint acts when used straight out of the can, the point where when dry the edges hold and stay thick.)
Instead, thin it to the point where it wants to flow back on itself a little bit more. (you would now want to be spraying and not brushing the paint, to keep the coating even and thin.)
This thinning will greatly reduce the strong "paint ridge" that you are dealing with.

If your finished piece is going to be placed against a bright light source without a backer and you are worried that light may be seen through the thinner background paint,
you can give the entire backside one more coat of spay or rolled paint to make it light tight and further protect the entire piece.

To sum it up: The true problem here is that your mask is separating itself completely from the paint's thick edge. Thinning the paint will allow the paint to separate at a lower point below the masks edge closer to the glass surface, and the excess paint should come up with the masking leaving a cleaner lower ridge

Just my thoughts on this,
Pat

[Jerry Berg]

Dave,

Out of curiosity I once used liquid mask (spraylat). I was able to get it as thin as I wanted. I brushed it on with a flat. As it dries it gets even much thinner. I then hand cut my design and applied the paint. This was before computers. Back then this is how I did illuminated sign faces, so I tried it on glass. Worked very well and was super thin. I still keep some liqiud mask on hand for various projects as it is useful, not for glass though, but I've been thinking about using it again.

Jerry

[Jeff Lang]

Dave,
How about glazes? I'm thinking since you have a kiln, you could use a glass color glaze with the mask. It would still leave the same edge, but when you fire the piece, the edge would be softened. I'm guessing a possible double bonus, as the color would be permanent.
Possible?
Jeff

[bob gamache]

Hi Dave

The name of the vinyl mask I use is PASK. Great for indoor and outdoor applications. use with a plotter or hand cut, clean lines, low tack, graphics and lettering without residue. Available in white or yellow. It comes in 15"(punched only), 24", 30"(punched or unpunched) & 48".
Available through Fellers 800 -654-8405

Really great stuff.

If you remove the mask while the paint is still wet, the edge of the paint will 'roll over' slightly and not leave a raised sharp edge thats difficult to gild.

I attached a photo of a 'similar' job that I used that material on.

[bob gamache]

Dave I forgot to mention that I always thin the paint when working in this manner, just as Patrick mentioned.
The trick is to remove the mask when the paint is wet. If you wait until the paint is dry you will be stuck with a hard raised edge even if you thin the paint. Pull the mask away perpendicular to the surface not on an angle.

[Robare M. Novou]

Dave,

Are you peeling the mask after your paint dries?

If so, do as Bob says, and peel your mask after letting the paint tack up a bit...to test the tack, touch some of the paint that is on the mask to check how its tacking up. The paint edges will then roll a bit, making it easy to gild.

As far as masking goes, there seems to be a few vinyl brands that are either white or yellow, low tack, computer or hand cuttable, 3.4 mil. thick.

I tryed MACtac's "MACmask 84.817", a translucent grey vinyl, low tack, 3.2 mil thick, hand or computer cuttable vinyl.
I liked it better than the other brands. It was better at holding detail on the smaller graphic elements when cut with a plotter. And I seem to remember it not leaving any residue behind. And it held better to the glass.

Fellers sells some Oracal "ORAMASK" translucent grey 810, white 811, and translucent blue 813.
In 15", 24", and 30" sizes. By the yard, 10yd rolls, and 50yd rolls. Not sure of the thickness, but might be the same as MACmask.

I always peel any mask before it dries.

[Robare M. Novou]

I use the paint thick not thin, as I don't want it seeping under the mask. And I apply it lightly in two coats.

I peel the masking 15 to 30 mins after last coat. Sometimes I peel the masking after an hour, it all depends on how fast it's curing / drying. Which is determined by the air temperature and humidity.

[DAVE SMITH]

Thanks for all the ideas lads. My way of this process is the same as Robare's here.,except the paint is probably different, I am using a two pack system from Sericol which takes a few days to dry but you are able to remove the mask within a few hours after tack. Pat's idea makes sense but that means spraying, thinking back about 10 years ago I remember spraying paint through masks and it working very well. Once this type of paint dries it does go off very hard and almost like Jeff stated as become part of the glass but without being fired. Jeff I did try the kiln firing of a blue and black enamel into glass ,it worked very well but left alot of translucent areas due to thinning from the heat ,the edge was good though for gilding, this method is definatly worth some experiments when time allows. Picked up some interesting ideas from all your comments so thankyou.
Dave

[Brian the Brush UK]

Hi Dave,
I have mix Owlets oil with the paint and removed the mask straight away, lay the project flat and the oil allows the paint to flow out a little and doesn't leave an edge, give it a try !! Have a great Christmas, the snow is heading your way so get the sledges out !!

Brian.
http://www.brianthebrushuk.com