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Hi I my name is ismael and I have a small Mirror Company in Nicaragua and would like to use a Fast Spray Silver method instead of the Slower pouring method..
I have search and search for answere and I think the difference in methods are 2 first the use of a sensitizer(stannous cloride) and the use of a faster reducer(faster than table sugar)..
I have come to see the process of the Spray On Chrome System(on the internet) and actually got the MSDS reducing formula of two companies(wont name them) one uses formaldehyde(formalin) and the Other uses Hydrazine they both seem to do it fast..
is that it? are those reducers faster than regular fructose and glucose?..
thank you for reading this and if you can answere your help will be greately thanks...
You are right that formalin (formaldehyde) and hydrazine both reduce the silver faster than sugar (dextrose, grape sugar, table sugar etc.) and so they are both used for spraying. Many silver manufacturers prefer to use formaldehyde because hydrazine damages your kidneys. It is more toxic than formaldehyde and much more toxic than sugar. When you are spraying the silver you are breathing the mist from the spray unless you are wearing a respirator.
You have to use stannous chloride (tinning solution) to sensitize the glass before silvering no matter what chemical you use to reduce the silver. Stannous chloride deposits an invisible layer of tin molecules that glue the silver to the substrate - whether you are silvering glass, plastic or anything else. As Danny Baronian has said before, it is the "glue" that bonds the silver to the glass. Silver will deposit without the tin but it will be very uneven and very, very easy to rub off. If you clean the glass well and tin it properly, the silver will be very even and very difficult to rub offf.
On a related note, you can spray on the silver with ordinary hand-held spray bottles - you do not need to have a dual-nozzle gun and an air compressor. Just be sure that the bottles are all plastic or all stainless steel. Any other metal, such as brass, will seriously interfere with the chemistry of the silver and the tin.
Ismael,
I find it interesting that your asking for information but not willing to share it. If we knew more about the two companies your talking about that might help.
I viewed the youtube video about spray on chrome. Looked great to me until I heard the price, about 10,000.00 for the system.
Sarah King wrote:Hi Ismael,
On a related note, you can spray on the silver with ordinary hand-held spray bottles - you do not need to have a dual-nozzle gun and an air compressor. Just be sure that the bottles are all plastic or all stainless steel. Any other metal, such as brass, will seriously interfere with the chemistry of the silver and the tin.
I hope this helps.
Thank you so much Mrs King, I am very thankful of your help... I was adding the tin for silver sensitizer as part of the formula and a very fast reducer like formalin, I am also finding that in the spray method there seems to be less material used?....
Roderick wrote:Ismael,
I find it interesting that your asking for information but not willing to share it. If we knew more about the two companies your talking about that might help.
I viewed the youtube video about spray on chrome. Looked great to me until I heard the price, about 10,000.00 for the system.
I am sorry I did not want my post to sound like if I was endorsing somebody special, the company that sells that 10,000 Fx System have their MSDS posted in their web site, you can have a look yourself...
personaly I would never pay that kind of money when you can build your own for MUCH MUCH LESS, if you realy know where to look at and if you do your home work...
Roderick wrote:I viewed the youtube video about spray on chrome. Looked great to me until I heard the price, about 10,000.00 for the system.
just ask yourself...Why would you pay 1,500$ for Walther Pilot two componet spray gun, when you can pay about 300 for a paasche silvering Gun?
why would you pay 1000$+ for a Fx "Patented Chemicals" that cover 500 Sq/F where you can get the same coverage from a very good Family Own Business(I wont name companies but their business name starts with A) for about 200$?
do your homework, their so called Patented chemicals are nothing more than fancy tollens reagent chemicals....
You are right that formalin (formaldehyde) and hydrazine both reduce the silver faster than sugar (dextrose, grape sugar, table sugar etc.) and so they are both used for spraying .
Mrs King I hope I dont' bother you with my questions Please.... I have seen all of the MSDS of your very nice Business and I have just a few questions if you don't mind me asking... the percentage of your concetrated silver nitrate solution is listed as bein 17 percent and the ready to use formula at 1 percent?. ..is that w/w or w/v? if it was the case of w/w the concentrated formula its going to be a 0.1N?.. I am confused about this because that concentrated formula needs to be diluted before spraying it, that would means that the spray method uses much much less silver nitrate than the usual tollens reagent...
Ismael, I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of an MSDS and therefore the interpretation attached to information contained in it. The purpose is to provide safety-related information on a material that the person handling it may not be familiar with (such as a factory worker). As such, OSHA does not require that components of mixtures be declared if their presence does not affect the safety characteristics of the material. Several of our products (as is true with all chemical manufacturers) contain small quantities of active ingredients to provide some non-safety-related benefit such as mirror-hardness and are not therefore referenced in the MSDS.
As for the amount of silver deposited when spraying, it depends on how long you spray for. One of the differences between pouring and spraying to make mirrors is that there is a fixed amount of chemical in the pouring method that is applied to the surface whereas in the spraying method you can continue to spray at an area to build up a thicker layer.
Tollens reagent was originally used as a qualitative test for aldehydes in a mixture and so the concentration of silver is not critical. It only has to be enough to give a visual test result. While it has been used in the past to make commercial mirrors, its tendency to form unstable silver azides meant that it was abandoned in safety-conscious factories. Modern silvering chemicals avoid this problem by not mixing concentrated diammine silver and activator. The chemicals we ship do not have this problem.
mgking wrote:Ismael, I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of an MSDS and therefore the interpretation attached to information contained in it..
I am sorry Mr King... but I thank you for your answer.. I was just asuming the percentage of silver nitrate was 17 percent as stated but I was wrong I guess... I bet the percentage you use are trade secrets and I will have to find it by my self once I get my hands on your product...
..... What Secrets? a) the so called Spray On Chrome System?(more like spray on silver.. ) b) Mrs and Mr King´s Business formulas?.. c) the whole Reducing agents formula?
please let me tell you that it is not my intention to upset anybody and if I did I am sorry...
I was adding the tin for silver sensitizer as part of the formula and a very fast reducer like formalin, I am also finding that in the spray method there seems to be less material used?.... 
I have seen all of the MSDS of your very nice Business and I have just a few questions if you don't mind me asking... 
..is that w/w or w/v? if it was the case of w/w the concentrated formula its going to be a 0.1N?.. 
I am confused about this because that concentrated formula needs to be diluted before spraying it, that would means that the spray method uses much much less silver nitrate than the usual tollens reagent... 
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