sealing copper...?

[vance galliher]

normally when using flat sheet copper or tubing, I apply various mediums to create patinas. An extreior project I'm working on now I want the copper tubing to stay bright. In a google search I found a product called Everbrite. Does anyone know about this product ? A friend suggested Frog Juice. Thanks for any responses

[Danny Baronian]

Hi Vance,

I'd suggest Spray Max 1K. A good auto body supply should carry it, or an equivalent.

Spray Max is an automotive grade, clear acrylic lacquer that produces an excellent gloss. I use it to clear copper leaf and brass plaques for customers that want to retain the bight polished look of brass and to keep the copper from oxidizing.

The nozzle sprays either vertically or horizontally with a spray pattern better than most rattle can coatings.

Their part no is 3 680 058, manufactured by Peter Kwansny Inc, Melville, NY

I've found Frog juice on metals to occasionally turn yellow, or get brittle on metal applications, sometimes within a year or two.

Danny

[Mark Summers]

I would not trust Frog Juice either.
You might think about putting 1000 or 2000 grit sandpaper to
it first. I looked at the Everbrite on the web. Guess it would
help to hear from those that have used it.

Mark

[Danny Baronian]

No need for sandpaper, no matter how fine the paper or steel wool, unless it's part of the finish. Use any type abrasive and it will grain the metal. At that point you'll have to match the entire part, and for some pieces it's not possible.

The only thing I use before coating with the clear is a wax and de greaser cleaner from the auto body supply.

They have some self etching products, but the one listed is often used on polished metals, and has better adhesion properties than those found in hardware or paint stores.

Danny

[Kent Smith]

Absolutely degrease first, use a lint-free soft cloth. Lacquers are good too and traditional for brass, copper and bronze. There are good water clear two component auto finishes that last better than lacquer. Acrylic uerethanes tend to be more clear in a two component. Frog juice is a single component acrylic which has a finite UV life, usually up to two years.

[Ismael Alvarado]

How about a 2k polyurethane clearcoat on a rattle can? yeah it sounds weird but they do exist.... or Permalac or a rattle can too? or maybe plain old enamel in a rattle can? I once made a test of 2 weeks on salt watter, it held up pretty good for those 2 weeks

[vance galliher]

the Spray Max K1 is available at local industrial finishing store...$20 for spray can..........however,once can is activated it's good for 24 hrs. Since my project is only an 1.5 x 14' tube, the guy said I'll have more than enough......so maybe I'll look for somthing else to clear within that time frame. thanks for info

[Danny Baronian]

Vance,

the product is Spray Max 1k, I have a can in front of me, it's use is limited only by the amount left in the can.

Spray Max 2K is pre catalyzed. Once used, the balance must be used within 24 hours.

Ismael, 2 weeks to test for reliability is not sufficient. Either you rely personal experience from past work for products standing up to the elements, test for prolonged periods - 6 months or longer - or rely on recommendations from others that absolutely know that it will not fail.

No one wants to get a call from an unhappy customer about a sign failure.

Danny

[Ismael Alvarado]

Ismael, 2 weeks to test for reliability is not sufficient. Either you rely personal experience from past work for products standing up to the elements, test for prolonged periods - 6 months or longer - or rely on recommendations from others that absolutely know that it will not fail.

2 weeks under saltwatter?.. thats good enough for me...but I must say that at the begening of the 3rd week the clear faild.... but for interior thats good....for outside its another thing...

[Kelly Thorson]

Hi Ismael,
I am curious as to the reasoning behind testing an interior (or any for that matter) clear under saltwater. Unless the clear is to be used under saltwater, it seems like it would not be a true representation of it's durability. The piece will be exposed to air, UV, abraision, possibly cleaners and some pollutants. I don't understand the correlation between salt water and durability over time, could you explain that to me.

[erik winkler]

Kelly,

Saltwater is a catalisator for the oxidation process of copper or any other metall.
So if the clear wouldn't hold up outside, you can probably increase your testing speed.
Instead of hanging it up 2 years outside, you can test it for two weeks in salt water.

[Ismael Alvarado]

Kelly,

Saltwater is a catalisator for the oxidation process of copper or any other metall.
So if the clear wouldn't hold up outside, you can probably increase your testing speed.
Instead of hanging it up 2 years outside, you can test it for two weeks in salt water.

what he said.....

[Kelly Thorson]

Well thanks for the explanation guys. It still doesn't make sense to me but thats OK.

[erik winkler]

Salt dissolved in water speeds up the rusting process that normaly occurs outside in the open air.

[Kelly Thorson]

What I associate with failure on clears are chalking, yellowing, blistering, peeling, and crackling, caused by weather extremes, sun damage, incompatability, pollution, cleaning etc. Will the salt water soak prove longevity against any of them?
Laboratories use sophisticated systems to expose materials to freeze/thaw, particle abrasion, corrosive gasses, UV rays etc. that accelerate the aging process and IMO even these tests can't accurately predict aging. We pickle foods in a saltwater brine in order to preserve them, so although the salt water may prove something in a marine environment, I don't understand it's relevance to everyday wear.

[Ismael Alvarado]

What I associate with failure on clears are chalking, yellowing, blistering, peeling, and crackling, caused by weather extremes, sun damage, incompatability, pollution, cleaning etc. Will the salt water soak prove longevity against any of them?
Laboratories use sophisticated systems to expose materials to freeze/thaw, particle abrasion, corrosive gasses, UV rays etc. that accelerate the aging process and IMO even these tests can't accurately predict aging. We pickle foods in a saltwater brine in order to preserve them, so although the salt water may prove something in a marine environment, I don't understand it's relevance to everyday wear.

hey check this wiki about salt spray test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_spray_test

actually nothing comes close to the REAL thing(waiting 10 years+) BUT this is the closest the industry has come up to this day...

its not perfect and it WILL change from people to people, BUT hey why don't you do the test yourself? I did it and guess what I found, that for corrotion preventing and adherence clear lacquers are superior to enamel clears....but for interiors they are OK....