old book term translations

[David Slade]

Any modern substitutes or ingredient information would be appreciated for these materials from Sign Painting Course and Atkinson Sign Painting.

In order of interest:
fibroseal
quick rubbing varnish
mucilage
nonparieil japan
turpintine dryers
china pencil

Also, I assume Japan can always be substituted with lacquer???

[Mike Jackson]

Check out this page:
http://www.theletterheads.com/glawson/varnishes.html

Interestingly, I found it by doing a Google search for fibroseal.

M. Jackson

You can probably find the other terms by doing a Google Search.

mucilage = glue

China Markers = http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/9 ... erralID=NA

[David Slade]

Thanks for that info Mike, but.. maybe I was not specific.

Actually, I was hoping to find out what fibroseal is. Thin lacquer, synthetic, some natural oil. My many searches always turn up a Fibroseal asbestos sealing system and Fibroseal tire sealant... is this the same fibroseal used by Matthews? I do not want to get too dependent on importing everything surface slow boat to Japan is why I wanted more basic info. Other international members probably have the same problem.

So the china pencil IS a grease pencil. Atkinson says you can water gild right over them so I assumed they were something else, sorry.

Quick rubbing is any oil based quick drying varnish?

Japan = lacquer (Always?) Strangely enough, Japan is not Japan in Japan... Ha ha ha!

mucilage = Elmers type glue?

turpentine dryer = any oil based dryer, like Holbein?
Holbein dryer is hard to mix with tube paint/turpentine/stand oil mixture (my One-Shot substitute).

Sorry to ask so many Q's

[Mike Jackson]

Hi David,
I hope you took the time to read that first link. It came directly from Rick Glawson's catalog. I think he was fairly specific on the products listed.

And, you can probably get a TON of good information with simple Google Searches:
For example, I typed in mucilage and got this :
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&so ... CEEQrQQwAA
To be honest, I don't know what Atkinson or Matthews would have used it for, but it is basically the cheap amber glue we used in grade school that had the little rubber daubber. It he was only using it to glue patterns together, any modern glue will work. If they were using it for some sort of gold leaf technique, you might want to find some of it. We can still buy it at Staples or most office supplies.

You also have to remember many of those old books were written before they had pre-mixed paints. Much of it was replaced by better products. For example, LeBlanc talked about backing up with Stazon paint. It was made to cover up areas of neon that they didn't want to show when lit. But that stuff was absolutely terrible for backing up gold. Before that edition, I believe people were using King Cole Black and after that edition, people started using Dekor screen inks.

For many years, Commonwealth produced all kinds of varnishes and unique paints. Rick Glawson obtained the rights and the formulas and had new batches of it made up. If you were buying it from him, it was generally considered the appropriate material for sign making. Some of that old stock is still around. Much of it can be located on this page:
http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm Besides the sign trade, many of the movie set people still use a lot of the old products.

[Mike Jackson]

The record appears to contain substantially all the evidence. It shows the material facts to be as follows. On the 24th of June, 1881, a contract was made between the parties in these terms:

'Brooklyn, N. Y., June 24th, 1881. We hereby agree to deliver to Messrs J. H. De Witt & Son, at their factory in Brooklyn, in N. Y., eighty (80) barrels of japan and twenty (2) barrels of varnish within one year from date. These goods to be exactly the same quality as we make for the De Witt Wire Cloth Company of New York, and as per sample bbls. delivered.

'Turpentine copal varnish, at 65c. per gallon.

'Turpentine japan dryer, at 55c. per gallon.

I found this in a google search.
I'd guess it is what we now call Japan Dryer, available at art supply stores and almost all paint supply stores.
Mike

[Kent Smith]

A few insights: musilage is basically a thinned, ready mixed hide glue which was often used because it resisted oils, varnishes and enamels. Thicker versions were used in book binding and as resin in shocard colors and thinner ones were sold as paper glue and school glue. Many other water colors use musilage as the base resin. Thinned and brushed it was used to adhere glitters, flitters, flock and frit to shocards and it dried basically clear. The advantage was it was very brushable and leveled nicely, especially with the addition of a small amount of glycerin.

Quick Rubbing is a root resin varnish added to a Japan base so it dries very fast. When rubbed out on a wood finish after staining, it produces an alcohol proof finish.

Japan varnish and Japan lacquer are two different finishes. Japan lacquering is actually from Japan and Japan varnishes were created to imitate some of those characteristics.

Basically any varnish in the Japan family is similar to a lacquer in that they are resin based, with high flash solvents ( turpentine, naphtha, etc) however they have an added dryer load that makes the resin cure rapidly. They mostly have no oil so the finish and drying are different than other varnishes like the spar family. This makes them great mixing varnishes as they can be an additive to many types of finishes. Fibroseal is a very thin resin varnish, formulated as a reducer for enamels and other varnishes. By using it to thin an enamel you also are introducing more resin into the mix, giving it more body and durability. It also can be used as a finishing varnish with oil painting or a resin additive for wood stains formulated with Japan colors or oil colors.

Originally a Japan dryer was a non-oil mix of white lead (33% by volume) and pure solvent, usually naphtha. A turpentine dryer was the same mix using turpentine which some believe mixed better with pure oil colors and Japan varnishes. Usually sold for oil painting, not for enamels typically. Japan dryers now are formulated with cobalt instead of lead making them "safer" but also more sensitive to balance in a mix as too much will keep paints from drying.

By the way, nonparieil simply means "equal to none" in Latin or roughly translated "the best quality with no equal". Much the same as the French slogan on LeFranc size which merely says it is made of the finest ingredients.

[David Slade]

I appreciate the help with the terms!

Mike: Thanks for the good advice, as always! I really have checked it all out. It's a shame nobody continued Mr.Glawson's Esoteric Sign Supply. The mucilage was for show card color, "If color has a tendency to rub off when dry, add a drop of mucilage. If the color dries too fast to work smoothly just add a drop of glycerin."

Kent: You are nonpareil!
There are a lot of traditional plant based lacquer and semi-lacquer varnishes I can try over here in Japan in the search for good quick rubbing and Fibroseal substitutes. You have narrowed it down for me!

[Mike Jackson]

David,
Back when Atkinson and Matthews were writing their books, the showcard paints may have been okay, but might need some doctoring. But, if you simply buy Rich-Art show card paints, you get top of the line paint right out of the bottle. It would be unlikely you'd really need to add muscilage or glycerine. Mike Stevens loved Rich Art temperas for his show cards and they were absolutely beautiful.

The point I'd try to make here is to allow for the fact many new products address shortcomings in early products. There is a ton of great information in those old books, but you have to be willing to evaluate it against what is available now.

We had a pretty good supply of all the Commonwealth varnishes Rick sold. We also had a pretty good supply of the old Commonwealth varnishes sold under the Commonwealth name sold by Cecil Sanders. I don't know if I have all the exact details, but I assume Rick bought the formulas and name from Cecil a long time ago.

Steven Parrish used to tell a story about Cecil Sanders when he owned it. Apparently Steven had been using one of the old formulas of one of his favorite varnishes for many years. He heard of a formula change upcoming, so he drove all the way from Nebraska to Chicago to buy all the remaining stock of that specific varnish. He didn't want to jeopardize how the varnish worked with his workflow.

Some of those Commonwealth varnishes had specific characteristics that made them better for some applications than others. For example, the clear fibroseal dried awfully fast. On our glass signs, we would have a small ornament that needed gilding...maybe the size of a dime or even a quarter. The backgrounds and outlines were already completed, so it was just a matter if filling the center of the ornament. We could paint in a swatch of clear fibroseal and wait only around 10 minutes and gild it. We could give it a second coat of fibroseal and gild the second time and even back it up one more time with clear a few minutes later. It worked great and it was the right material for the right step vs witing three hours to gild each step. Still, One-Shot's gold size is darned fast and it might work as a modern day substitute. Trying to gild large areas with clear fibroseal might be a disaster.Best regards,
Mike Jackson

[Kent Smith]

Mike, I agree with you about using Rich Art. If it has been on the shelf a while though, you can modify it with thinned muselage or glycerin instead of just water. My reference to that though was to use the glue by itself for adhereing. It is very brushable by itself and glycerin can be used like a flow enhancer to keep it from setting up too fast while you brush it. This technique is more often used for illumination, or gilding on parchment and fine papers where the glue is used as a size.

[David Slade]

I love the story about the fibroseal. I've been playing with a lacquer clear that I bought over here and was able to paint over it in under an hour. I can imagine when I start doing real work for customers I would want to get things moving along a little quicker. With gilding, stipple, tinting and paint on the same sign the wait time is a killer. I don't want to be in the same spot as Steven Parrish with supply bottle necks, that's for sure. I have had several lost packages from the US is why I am scared to get dependent on importing the stuff I need. I will have to get some of the Commonwealth stuff for comparison. But if Robert can figure out something dependable and reasonable maybe I could just go that route though ...

The video of Steven Parrish was great, by the way,Mike. If you have the whole segment I would like to see it.

I tried glue and glycerin with water color. It comes kind of close and would be good just for practice where you don't want to put out fumes.