Guessing Game

[Doug Bernhardt]

Below is a photo from "Les Trois Garcons" in American thats "Lez-troyz Gar-cons" and of the three One is original......one restored and another is a complete fabrication to resemble what the original might have been....any takers? This is not unusual to see one of a series of glass adverts to be missing. Now I have to warn you, the correct answers won't arrive till the end of the week.....thats a good Friday. I "might" give a hint or three along the way.

2e-trois garcons glass2.jpg (80.17 KiB) Viewed 8745 times

[Robare M. Novou]

Hows about this for an guess....
http://www.lestroisgarcons.com/gallery/

Be sure to click on the "gallery" link...and then click on the glowing circles.

RMN

[Kelly Thorson]

Looks like a well done job from this distance.
I'll bite. From L-R, restored, original, recreated.

[Dan Seese]

Hey Doug,
Well, here it is - Good Friday evening & still no answer!
And not even a hint.
That's a tough one. Even looking at them up close it's hard to see much difference.
I'm going to guess, from Left to Right: Recreated, Original, Restored. I have some arbitrary reasons for my choices but it's mostly a guess.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Okay.....am getting a few photos from the graphics computer but have to ask both you (Dan) and Kelly why you picked as you have? It'll be much easier to see in the new pics coming soon. I was just trying to see if anyone was interested or even noticed for that matter.

[Kelly Thorson]

Always interested Doug. I kind of jumped in to get things started, sometimes people here are pretty reserved.
My guess was pretty much a shot in the dark. It's pretty hard to tell from the pictures you posted, but to me the shadows seemed stronger in the right panel and the compressed S's didn't seem in keeping with the other two panels. The extended kerning of the words family and stores in the middle panels made me suspect they were original and the background seems a bit lighter and the colours a bit more amber, which actually made me second guess myself as it could have been made from a more optically clear glass. I'm interested to find out what you think stands out that you thought would tell them apart.

[Dan Seese]

Hi Doug,
The borders on all 3 look pretty much the same.
Some of the background on the middle one (like in the arch at the top) looks like it could be a bit faded so I took that into account in choosing it as the original. The top lettering on the one on the right is more similar to the middle one than the one on the left so I chose it as a restored original. (However, this could be a case for the one on the right being a recreation, as they would be more careful to simulate the original.)
Thus, as I said, a lot of what determined my thinking as somewhat arbitrary.
Looking forward to seeing the better pics. It's pretty fascinating.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Here's a couple more from the day I was there. I'm sure I have more but they will be buried deeply in a DVD of images

e-trois garcons glass1.jpg (98.04 KiB) Viewed 8345 times

e-trois garcons glass3.jpg (95.57 KiB) Viewed 8350 times

and so as the one on the far left was restored....and hard to get a photo of..... it ain't included.

e-trois garcons glass3.jpg (95.57 KiB) Viewed 8350 times

pretty amazing work concidering one of them is only a few years old huh?

[erik winkler]

So no april fools day then?....
Is it known who made the panel that has been done a few years back?

[DAVE SMITH]

I think i recall the owner saying the new one was made 20 to 30 years ago Doug.
He never had any names on who made the panel though Erik. They are lovely panels and all hand done.
How about you guy's all come over and we have a party at this venue... It's in a great location..
Dave

[Jeff Lang]

Mr. Smith,
Set the dates & I'll sign up for that one.
Jeff

[DAVE SMITH]

Jeff once this downturn in our economies sorts it's self out I think it would be a good idea for alot of you guy's to come over and do a tour of alott of these great pubs we have left here. You would need about a week for a quick tour and then you would only probably get to see half of them .
Doug would need to be our guide. I get lost around London.
Dave

[Kelly Thorson]

pretty amazing work concidering one of them is only a few years old huh?

I think that is funny, Doug. With all the modern technology and access to information, are you really most amazed at the recreation? Not to in any way knock the talents of whom ever recreated it, but the original artist holds most of my esteem.
I think back then the advantage they had over us was a lack of distraction, they had time, patience and perseverence on their side. There are a few here that still have those qualities, kudos to you!
Anyway, I'm interested to find out what your thoughts behind that comment were. I think it would make for an interesting discussion.

[Robare M. Novou]

The Cat's out of the bag....A clue....I'll bite, I believe the glass sign behind the Cat (tiger) is the new one. The one behind the Monkey is restored, and the one to the far right is all original.

Ok, so what do I win?

RMN

[Doug Bernhardt]

Okay the jig is up.......Knave of clubs centre is all original.....far left is restored and far right is the repro. To really tell difference you need to be right up close and see a little flaking....as you can in one of the posted pics, which was another hint somewhere along the way. Kelly I think you're right with "lack of distraction" theory but also I think that a certain level of excellence was demanded and expected. Owners of a pub from that time didn't expect to see a return on investment for 10 or so years. Unlike today where 2 years is more in keeping,at least here. Also maybe people thought about work and life differently.....this is just a guess but would love to read an issue or two from the "Licensed Victualler" from that time. That periodical carried all the news of pubs etc. It was a huge business and as they say "there's a pub on every corner"....and from observation, sometimes 4!!

[Robare M. Novou]

Ok, so now we know "What" they are...how about telling us "Who" did them, and the "When", "Where", " Why"....might even want to stick a "How" in there somewhere too.

RMN

[Doug Bernhardt]

Hi Robare....wish I knew the answer to those questions. Me thinks you'd need to live there or have lots of time and have access to archives to be able to dig that info up. The same craftsman has work here and there in old London pubs and you get used to and recognize his style. There seem to have been a few craftsmen working in that way. Will dig up a few more photos to attach here later this weekend.