Two Questions ($$)

[Danny Baronian]

Two questions:

1. What is the economy like in your area, and what are you doing to promote yourself ?

2. In a slow economy (or ANY for that matter), how would you feel if your sign supplier offered services beyond selling supplies, and began offering the same services you supply?

I know of one person that received a faxed announcement that began providing exactly the same services as his. The supplier hired a designer and did the work, but unlikely had the same design ability or work experience as one that's been in business 10+ years. At some point it's likely they will siphon work away from those they previously served as a material supplier to that as a material supplier AND competition.

I recently received an email from Product Sign Supply in San Jose, CA. I haven't purchased from them in a long time for various reasons: their supplies are consistently more expensive, and depending on who takes the call, sales staff know little to nothing about products they sell.

I must still be on their mailing list as I received this:

Product Sign Supplies offers the following wholesale services

PSS Digital Print Services
Direct-To-Substrate Printing C•M•Y•K•W - Up to 8ft x 10ft - New at DPS
Color Roll-Media Printing - Up to 120"
Cut Vinyl Letters & Graphics - Up to 63" - New at DPS
Laminating
Contour Cutting - Up to 63" - New at DPS
Contour Routing - Up to 5'x10' - New at DPS
Print Mounting to Substrates
Printed-Banner Finishing
PSS Betty Banner Services
Standard Banners
Custom Banners
Banner Retrofit & Repair
PSS Routing & Mill Services
Dimensional Routing - Now Available
Graphics
Logos
Sign Blanks
Board & Substrate Cutting
Corner Rounding - New Sizes
Will this effect me, I seriously doubt it. Does it concern me, yes. Will other suppliers pick up, and offer more 'services' such as digital printing, and dimensional routing?

Will they be able to underbid quotes from local sign companies? Probably, since their cost of material's are obviously less than we pay. Will they have on par with those on the forum, and if not, will they state that up front? No.

When or will they glean client's data base from your invoice for a larger target audience for email announcements, i.e. 'Job name: Century Real Estate (enter your clients name here)?

Thoughts, comments?

[Larry White]

Well Lee...you KNOW what the economy is like in our area...seein' how we're almost neighbors and all (SF Bay Area, California). For me, it's a shakey up and down roller coaster ride. The higher end jobs are a bit further apart, and the used to be steady work, isn't so steady. I get a bit tired of the trudge, truth be told. But I seem to do alright every month.....knock on wood. I'm working at about half pace...which means, if I had more work, I could make twice as much as I'm making currently.

As for business promotion, I do way more thinking about it, than actually doing something. But next month I'm going to make a mailer and send it out.

How would I feel if my supplier offered services beyond selling product, and began offering the same services I supply...well...that's the boat I'm in. One of the local glass suppliers decided to offer sandblasted glass, rather than having me do it for them anymore. They were about 20% of my business, so that hurt. Now, they've brought in "an artist" to do custom artwork, sandblasting, logos, and signage...again opting to be my competition. I know they'll undercut my prices, but they won't be able to do everything that I can. Oooh...sticks in my craw.... I trust, I'll still be able to land the higher end more complex jobs. I'm also sure that my regular customers will continue to use my services. I seem to get a new customer every month too, so that's good. Of course, I'd rather not have any competition...but basically it's the reason for the creation of my mailer, remind my customers that I'm still here, and send it out to some new potential ones.

Seems the corporation always wants to squeeze out the little guy, so it's more money for them..... It would be interesting to know how many American jobs have gone to foriegn countries, how many industries have just vanished, and how many people have been downsized. I'm sure it would be alarming.

I wonder if these "suppliers" that are now providing "services", will advertise their services to the general public, or if they'll contain them to wholesalers. Guess you could get into the sign business as a middleman, run it out of your house, no equipment, no overhead, no skills, etc.

I'll just keep on, like I am, and trust my needs will be met. Maybe someday I'll fold up this piss pit and go hang out with Mackle....but I don't know.



......Someday, this business will no longer concern me......


-Aho!



.

[James Warwick]

"I'll just keep on, like I am"

Do this mean your still doing business with the glass company ??
Don't worry about a couple pennies.
TAKE CARE OF THE ONES THAT TAKE CARE OF YOU........

[erik winkler]

One minute after we see that our supplier is dealing with our customers directly or offers the same work to the end-market, we do bussiness with an other supplier.
No turning back ever. They just took the wrong path in my opinion.
We look for a new supplier tell them the truth, tell them why we left, tell them that we are serious with this gentlemans agreement and if they are interested they can take on their business on the the same grounds we did business with the former supplier.

[joe cieslowski]

The"economy" in this area is still pretty slow. It has however weeded out the lowballers and the FBN'ers. The sign business, however, is just dandy! (This info is based on the "real" sign shop in town. ) My carving business has been quite steady and as every spring arrives, the phone has been ringing with real orders. Old customers and new. Even my sucky web site has been producing!.....go figure. Matter of fact, I'm hustling to finish up as much as I can with what's already on the books cause my shows start in 2 weeks. With decent weather, I expect I'll get slammed.

On your second question.......I really don't see any of my suppliers going into the wood carving business. In 32 years, my only compitition has been myself and I can be brutal!!!

OK everybody......Back To Work!

Joe

[Mike Jackson]

I don't like the sounds of it much, but it seems to be a trend in just about every aspect of business. More than likely, they had to hire one or two sign people, so I am sure they are happy about it. If the suppliers I deal with in Denver or Salt Lake City opened a sign shop, it wouldn't affect me here in Jackson Hole, but I am sure it would or could affect shops close to them.

Mike Jackson

[Mark Summers]

1. How is biz. 2009 I would just as well forget about. Kinda scrary
at times. The phone quit ringing. The first 6 months of 2009 when
the stock market was taking 900 point dives didn't do much for
optimism with the buying public. Still a lot of reticence as I see but
am more optimistic for 2010. I bid twice as much and get half the
work but people are coming around slowwwwly. Biggest recession
since the Great Depression. Just have to hang in.
--Promoting I do more cold calling and follow up on leads most
always.

2. Sign supplier gone sign making. I think Eric covered the bases.
Where does Product Sign Supply expect to go with this thinking?
I'm guessing many sign makers have already dumped them.
I would not give them the time of day once I found them out.
They are burning the candle at both ends. My 2 cents.

Mark

Below is for your enjoyment. Not sure I have the right adjectives
for this one.

[David Slade]

My main business is not signs but things have been cut-throat for the last 5 years (Along with the rest of Japan's economy). The situation Danny mentioned was VERY familiar. The big businesses have started offering the the same services as me too, but packaged along with lots of other conveniences and at cut rate.

Bottom line is, technology is eroding the main advantage you used to have, SKILL. "Computers can do it!"

Just being a Letterhead says to me that you fellas are on the right track... you are constantly trying to keep you skills at the top of the game!

Heartfelt best wishes!!!

[Doug Bernhardt]

I've been following this with interest especially re; economics. Here in Canada am very busy but do watch things closely. @ years ago things died off for me for about 6 months and there was some nail biting. Right.....have work already until July. As for the supplier....I concur with pretty much everything said. If any of my suppliers (Canadian Signcrafters excepted) started doing what I do I would stop doing business with them, just on principal if nothing else. It has happened here a few times over the years.