Dave Smith Video???

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Mark Summers
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Dave Smith Video???

Post by Mark Summers » Wed May 19, 2010 1:44 pm

Isn't this interesting that Erik made a post on videos. I was just
getting ready to write one for a very likely candidate
Dave Smith, to do a video (for profit of course) on gold leaf
techniques. What say you Dave? Now that I have aired this
I hope you make this jump and maybe make a few pesos while
you are at it.

Mark

vance galliher
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by vance galliher » Wed May 19, 2010 11:32 pm

......that would really be something ! I would support that emotion
b
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

DAVE SMITH
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by DAVE SMITH » Thu May 20, 2010 2:19 am

Hi Mark.
Appreciate you putting my name forward for this as there are so many people here that could also
make a video of these techniques. I'm no film maker but would certainly be keen to give it a try on my next job.
Other than quick Youtube films made by my camera what would you suggest the best way to go?
Dave

Raymond Chapman
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Location: Temple. Texas

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Raymond Chapman » Thu May 20, 2010 8:16 am

Dave - I have video editing software and would be glad to assist in editing whatever you film. You could film a little bit of everything and then I could splice things together to make if "flow" better.

Or....you could just send me a ticket to England and I could come and film it myself.

DAVE SMITH
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Location: ENGLAND

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by DAVE SMITH » Fri May 21, 2010 2:31 am

I reckon a ticket to England is the best thing Ray for you. send me your address.
You may need to dodge the ash cloud though........Passengers at Heathrow and Gatwick don't know if there coming or going and you could be one of them.
I have a Blog Website being made at the moment but after this is set up I will certainly take you
up on your offer Ray.
Appreciate that .thanks!
Thanks

Raymond Chapman
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Location: Temple. Texas

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Raymond Chapman » Fri May 21, 2010 7:49 am

Sounds like a great idea to me - I would get to see England and spend some time with The Master. Priceless!

And it would be a win-win for you since could share your talents with the rest of us...and make a few bucks in the process.

We may need someone along to translate from Texan to English.

DAVE SMITH
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Location: ENGLAND

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sun May 23, 2010 5:35 am

Thanks Ray , It would mean the same for me to spend time with a Texan master! but not at one of those curry houses like you took me to last time, man that was hot stuff. As for the language barrier we could pull in John Studden with his Cornish slang and Californian wit ,that should bring us together.
Dave

Duncan Wilkie
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Duncan Wilkie » Sun May 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Talk about talent and wit. You two would make a classic film I'm sure.
As for the language barrier, we Canadians have been mediating international exchanges for years. I would certainly volunteer to be the go between, as I understand both Texan and the Queen's English. I'm a little weak on Newfoundland English and Ausie speak. If all else fails, I'd suggest a hefty increase in Ale consumption. Somehow liquored up sign writers all speak pretty much the same English.

Raymond Chapman
Posts: 342
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Location: Temple. Texas

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Raymond Chapman » Sun May 23, 2010 4:14 pm

Dave, that was just our generic Mexican food that you ate. I knew that your stomach probably couldn't handle the real stuff.

Keep me posted on the video stuff. I'm ready when you are. Leaving a Dave Smith instructional video for future generations would be a dream come true.

erik winkler
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by erik winkler » Tue May 25, 2010 3:39 am

Raymond and Dave,

How I would love to have this dvd in my hands!
But still I would hate it being made!!
Realize that when this dvd is made not only you and me are watching this tutorial, but also the:
1. Chinese
2. Malesian
3. Fillipin
and every other low-wager country....

I told this to Dave 2 years ago and felt very bad about this.....
I told him I would not like it that these exclusieves techniques ar being taught to the whole world.
It is very egocentric I know. Especially since I have learned so much through this forum and the so called Letterhead spirit.

But I know we all feel this way, when I say a gilding job on a 3d wooden sign or nice decorative glass piece is the custard on the cake.
If these techniques are widely fo the grabs, I know for sure we all will be too exspensive in our prices for doing the jobs, we soo much liked to do.....
Handpainting is run over by larger printing machines and Decorating glass will be done by one billion chinese (or what ever low wager country) people who work like machines.

Would appreciate your opninion in this one.

Erik
Last edited by erik winkler on Tue May 25, 2010 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Jerry Berg
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Location: pacific northwest

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Jerry Berg » Tue May 25, 2010 8:07 am

Erik could be on to something there.

DAVE SMITH
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by DAVE SMITH » Tue May 25, 2010 10:54 am

Erik and Jerry
While I understand your concerns about this, I suppose the thing to remember is that although a video could show techniques, the artistic input is down to the individual.
You can teach a low-paid worker how to do the technical side, but you can't teach him how to design an ORIGINAL work of art.There are a lot of cheap Chinese oil paintings in my local art shop, scenes of beaches and birds and boats. I know that they are produced in a factory on a production line. One guy paints the sky and sea, another paints the boats, and another does the birds. Some people will always buy these, but the more discerning customer will always buy a quality original.The advantage of mass-produced glassware is that it at least raises public awareness of what is available, and makes potential customers seek it out. At this point the true craftsman creams the high-end lucrative jobs off the top.
I think that more exposure of our work can only be good for business.

However, even before I have finished writing this reply, I have had a steady stream of emails from concerned fellow craftsmen, saying that I could be destroying their business if I was to sell the"secrets of the trade" to those who have not done the painstaking research that they have. This causes me a great deal of concern, as I obviously don't want to create any problems for anyone else by profiting from the knowledge that I have worked hard to accumulate over my entire career. As you know, I share knowledge of my techniques with many of you through private email , here on this forum, and over the years step by steps in various magazines . I have never regarded any of you as a threat to my business .
I will have to give some serious consideration to how to proceed from here, and I would welcome any input from anyone with an opinion one way or the other. All honest opinions will be considered without offence being taken by me.
Dave

Raymond Chapman
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Location: Temple. Texas

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Raymond Chapman » Tue May 25, 2010 10:56 am

Sadly, this was the attitude of the old sign painters when I started trying to learn this trade. Don't share anything with anyone because they might take your livelihood away. Many fine craftsmen took their abilities and knowledge to the grave with them.

In my opinion, we never hurt our craft by sharing knowledge...whatever country it is. If some Chinese guy wants to watch Dave's video and spend the time and expense to learn something that is going to take him years to master and then give it away or at a drastically reduced price, then that's his business - he's the one wasting his time.

Any one of us could do the same thing. We see it every day in the digital printing business - buy and printer and undercut everyone else. The only difference is that buying a video and whatever equipment and materials are involved does not enable you to do what Dave does.

And the demand for such high end work is not the same as those wanting digital prints. You will never be able to buy what Dave produces at Wal-Mart. You might get some clear plastic printed with a design but not anywhere near the quality of David's work. And there will always be those who know the difference and are willing to pay the price. His work (and others like him) will always be in demand, but it will never be the main stream of what is produced.

There are computer driven routers that can do reproductions of great carvings, but there are still those individuals that want the real thing. Not many, but they are still out there.

The gifted artisians will always be in demand. Those that produce knock-offs will also be in demand, but there will be more of them and each will be competiting on price rather than quality.

Dave's video (when and if he makes it) will inspire some to emulate what he does and be willing to spend the effort and energy to do the same. Others may try to figure out how to do the same thing cheaper and quicker, but they will only hurt themselves. Fear is never a good excuse for not doing something.

In my opinion whatever he produces will help more than it hurts.

Patrick Mackle
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Patrick Mackle » Tue May 25, 2010 11:05 am

It's already been happening for many years now, the only difference was the master's kept their techniques secret and their quality high.
Lately it is harder and harder to tell the difference because cheaper manufacturers are really focusing into reaching the bar on quality while
they maximize production resulting in floods of low price product. The Tiffany lamp at lamps R us immediately comes to mind, around $100.00.
Back when Rick was developing his angel gilding kits, I knew a California artist that had the reverse painted lamp shape technique down to a science.
His work was up there with Handel and he got his price. One day as we were talking in his office he told me that an Asian company had called him and offered an
immense amount of money if he would fly over to their factory and spill his techniques. He was really wrestling with this one time sell out.
Apparently money won and he did the deal. As you all know, that is why reverse painted lampshades were featured in large amounts as you walked through the doors of Costco and other warehouse stores. As I passed them, I always recall how he sold his soul.
There is always the chance that anything we discuss here can be exploited, so I guess let's share and have fun anyway.
Pat

Larry White
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Larry White » Tue May 25, 2010 11:32 am

You can't stop the clouds by the building of a ship!

I noticed the sign gang is thinking of heading your way...

Wait a minute! Wait just a minute! As you guys make the video....
I could go out and do some drinking and some kicking!...
Thanks lads. I Made this one last week again, some drunk kicked the door in and gave me a gilding job.
I ain't a bad tour guide through a sushi menu either!

....salmon eggs I can't eat...


I guess the best advice just to not take any dam advice.....

-Aho!



.
Last edited by Larry White on Tue May 25, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raymond Chapman
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Location: Temple. Texas

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Raymond Chapman » Tue May 25, 2010 12:59 pm

Can anyone tell me what Larry just said? :)

Mark Summers
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Mark Summers » Tue May 25, 2010 2:04 pm

I'm not sure what he said but I agree with him 100%
--------------------------------

O.K. in all seriousness. A point was made about the Chinese influence
and how they will take this information and do things with it.
Well the fact is if anything is produced on a disk they (the Chinese) will
plagiarize it......or most anything we produce. They are relentless
in their pursuit of their brand of capitalism. I think the difference
here is that what would come out of this video is painstaking
techniques Dave has developed over the years and refined. The
ideas that are second nature to him us mortals will have to
do much trial and error to come up something close. I really don't
think the Chinese have the patience to do these one-of-a-kind
pieces. Their gig is mass producing. What they might do is
reproduce this disk disk a bazillion time if they can get ahold of it.
Hopefully we don't see that. There is a rather limited market for this disk though. It is not like producing one of the hot new country or
rock-n-roll stars or an epic movie, this would have mass appeal.
I really look forward to the video in the coming months and hope
Dave has great success with this. This is a very generous effort
on his part.

Mark

John Studden
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by John Studden » Wed May 26, 2010 8:24 pm

There really are no Secrets in this trade, all the techniques are already in Books & on Videos. There are a lot of individual approaches to differing end results. If everyone was secretive in there trades we would not progress very far. What if Rick Glawson had decided to keep all his research to himself?....this forum & others would not exist....If there never was a Conclave most people, including myself would still be in the dark ages, so to speak, If the original Letterheads had never started to share their knowkedge with others a lot of these skills would still be lost............To suggest keeping this "knowledge" amongst a chosen few is just ridiculous, where would most of us be without "Workshops"?...........No one person knows everything, to think that the Chinese or someone else is suddenly going to start mass producing replicas of 100 year old signs is just crazy.......It is hard for those with the Knowledge to even produce the odd one or two & make a living,.........Especially with the latest Regime taking everyones money in various taxes...Having spoken with Dave this morning I think we are in total agreement.

I am sure Rick would be spinning in his grave listening to this one........
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California

Larry White
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Larry White » Thu May 27, 2010 10:28 am

BRAVO!

I think the real question might be if there would be a good enough return on the investment of creating, editing, packaging, and marketing a video of this nature, with the limilted audience for this type of work.

I'm sure everyone would like it for their collection, but it sure wouldn't replace a hands-on workshop by any one of our craft's masters.

...but I don't know....

-Aho!



.

erik winkler
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by erik winkler » Thu May 27, 2010 11:03 am

Ok ok , no problem then it was just a reasonable thought.... I think.
I already have a dvd made which shows all the techniques!
1. Mica stipple etching
2. Goldleafing on glass
3. Screen printing
4. White etching
5. Tone etching
6. Glue chipping
7. Silvering
8. How to start up briliant cutting
9. Liquid gilding
10. Make your own silvering chemicals
11. Make your own gilding chemicals
12. Shell applications.
13. Shell cutting in various shapes
14. Gilding techniques with burnishing for outside
15. Picture adhesion on glass
16. Glass casting
17. Glass painting

and more

Anyone interested?
Chinese residents get a 30% discount, since I know how difficult it is to learn all these new/old techniques.
I know they can not afford a workshop of 1500 euro's plus.
Eventhough it only took me two and a half years, 22 hours a day and about 15 000 euro's to get where I am now: still the beginning.
I will show my true Letterhead spirit.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Wayne Osborne
Posts: 155
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Location: West Sussex.England

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Wayne Osborne » Thu May 27, 2010 11:55 am

I'm with John on this one-

Dave's workshops are great-He's a great teacher as well as craftsman and I know his video will just as fantastic .
I will be first in that queue when its done- Not because I want to sell this stuff and be as good as Dave- far from it- I just like to see it done more than anything

As for selling his soul- I heard he's already done that - we all know he's a witch anyway ! :mrgreen:

erik winkler
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by erik winkler » Thu May 27, 2010 12:04 pm

You know my post was just a joke ofcourse :wink:
Just checking your true Letterhead spirit :D

Last edit: A cynical joke.
Last edited by erik winkler on Fri May 28, 2010 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Patrick Mackle
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
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Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Patrick Mackle » Thu May 27, 2010 1:34 pm

I will buy videos from anyone here or anywhere that teach me or encourage me to keep growing and learning.
I plan on enjoying working and smiling till the day they outlaw paint or the hairs fall out of my brushes (like it did on my head).
I still feel and think like I did before Rick went, as though he is still perpetually involved at his shop with Lola. Once in a while I look up from my bench and realize
that it is just a consoling dream, but I like it that way.
Pat

Martin Melish
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Dave Smith Video???

Post by Martin Melish » Thu May 27, 2010 8:44 pm

I think we all need to realize China should be renamed to XEROX in the GREAT USA. I have done electrical work at CISCO SYSTEMS for the last 10 years. The Chinese people have no regard for patents or copyright laws anywhere. they will reproduce anything,anywhere,anytime. CISCO has a department devoted to finding those that manufacture counterfeit equipment made overseas. And yes China wins.Of course China has their children growing up in rivers of toxic waste and flumes of noxious waste recycling electronic waste too. EVERY COUNTRY had better think about the enviorment.
Patrick Mackle wrote:I will buy videos from anyone here or anywhere that teach me or encourage me to keep growing and learning.
I plan on enjoying working and smiling till the day they outlaw paint or the hairs fall out of my brushes (like it did on my head).
I still feel and think like I did before Rick went, as though he is still perpetually involved at his shop with Lola. Once in a while I look up from my bench and realize
that it is just a consoling dream, but I like it that way.
Pat

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