Good to be back

An interactive section of TheLetterheads.com

Topics include: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Off Topic Posts may be deleted at the discretion of the web hosts. ABSOLUTELY NO SHARING OF COPYRIGHTED FONTS, CLIP ART, or VIDEOS!

Please take social chit-chat elsewhere!

Moderators: Danny Baronian, Mike Jackson

Post Reply
Ashley Bishop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

Good to be back

Post by Ashley Bishop » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:25 pm

Nearly every few days for years I've visited this excellent forum and read with much interest what incredible work pals of many years across the world have been producing and what thoughts they are sharing.
It's high time I contributed and stop just staring from the sidelines. It's great to see Perry Walker on the site, Perry and I visited Rick's conclave together in 2000 and had a blast. we were lucky enough to learn so much from the great man on that trip.

I thought I'd post a picture of a glass sign you may be interested in that we fitted yesterday in Holt, north Norfolk. The customer said he wanted a "high Victorian" sign and I could'nt believe my luck. Wait for a whole career and finally a customer with the right vision comes along. Old Town, the shop make vintage style clothes for men and women, the whole concept is design led and the inside of the shop is a joy to behold with such attention to detail. The interior is also graced by several of Stuart Nortons fantastic brilliant cut mirrors.

For the sign we looked back to the classic Brilliant Sign Co. stock in trade glass tablet signs which were produced in vast numbers between the 1890's and the 1930's. Every high street in the U.K. would of had examples of this sought of work.
The primary letters are carved in wood and gilded behind the glass and the secondary text is mica etched and water gilded.
The scrolls and "and" are in natural red abalone glued to the reverse of the glass.

It's great to be able to share something with you all at last!
Attachments
old2.jpg
shop front
old2.jpg (35.44 KiB) Viewed 5163 times
old.jpg
Old Town glass sign
old.jpg (37.04 KiB) Viewed 5170 times

Danny Baronian
Site Admin
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:16 am
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by Danny Baronian » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:11 pm

Hi Ashley,

good to see your post, nice work. Getting to be a good representation of those of you across the pond... keep posting.

I remember meeting you and Perry at Rick's. You both looked like everyone that came through Rick's for the first time! Doesn't seem that long ago does it?!

Do you have close up of the piece before assembly of the front of the glass and the letters?

Thanks,
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com

Wayne Osborne
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:03 am
Location: West Sussex.England

Re: Good to be back

Post by Wayne Osborne » Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:01 pm

Hi Ashley- Thats bloomin lovely mate :D

Ashley Bishop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

Re: Good to be back

Post by Ashley Bishop » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:10 am

Thanks Danny, I well remeber meeting with you at Rick's, you showed me a brush box you had made on the cnc, that was a great router project.

I did not take any photo's during the making of the sign. I first hand drew a design scanned it in and cleaned it up. Then acid etched the glass and applied the black. Next came the shadows, then gilding and pearl application. The backing board was carved on the cnc with a 150 degree bit then cleaned up with the hand gouges.

Hi Wayne, thanks for the kind words and I look forward to catching up with you in a fex weeks at Wizz's letterhead meet.

Andrew Grundon
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 7:03 am
Location: Cornwall, GB
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by Andrew Grundon » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:03 am

Really nice work. Oh for a few more customers like that!.Hoping to carve some signs myself soon, so inspiration is always welcome. A

Ashley Bishop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

Re: Good to be back

Post by Ashley Bishop » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:21 am

Thanks for that Andy, we spend most of our lives making signs to customers designs which are on the whole uninspirational, it's great when once in a while a customer comes along who understands that it's better to give a rough idea and let the sign maker decide whats best.

I dropped by your workshop at easter with my cousin who lives in Camelford, it was after hours and we missed you. I'll be down again over summer so i'll be sure to catch you on that trip.

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by erik winkler » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:36 am

I wish that I could see some close ups.

Get on that ladder and shoot! :D
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Good to be back

Post by DAVE SMITH » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:50 pm

Looks to be a nice job Ashley , I have a carved background sign like this coming up soon, would be interesting to know if you sealed the carved lettering in to prevent moisture to the clear areas of glass or are you letting the sign breath ?. I have read some very old books about this type of work which they explain to seal them in with white putty completely to prevent this from happening. After talking with a signmaker friend Jake Ansell , Jake had made a few carved signs like this which he has let airflow to them, the signs he made have been up several years without any problems with damp and still look good as new.

I made some small carved gilded signs for my car a couple of years ago which were completley sealed to prevent insects and damp coming in, these have also worked very well, but with a bigger sign the outcome may be different... Would be interesting to see what others think about these types of signs and preventing moisture?

Dave

perry walker
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:02 am

Re: Good to be back

Post by perry walker » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:45 am

hi ash,

nice work mate..! good to see your still producing and pushing the old skool signage, only if everyone thought of having old traditional stuff - we'd ALL be millionaire's..! :wink: we had some great times at Dave smith's and Rick's workshop's back in the day and thank them both for there priceless knowledge :D

hope your keeping well and the family....catch up soon i hope.!

take care. Perry

Andrew Grundon
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 7:03 am
Location: Cornwall, GB
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by Andrew Grundon » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:42 am

Definitely give me a shout when you're down. Give me a call first to make sure I'm around and not out fitting or something. Maybe we'll get a pint in! A

Ashley Bishop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

Re: Good to be back

Post by Ashley Bishop » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:49 am

Hi Dave thanks for the kind comments. Over the last ten years I've made around twenty large glass and carved fascia signs. On an early one I let the carving OSS to the rear of the glass, during fitting this scuffed the paint on the rear of the glass. Ever since then I have spaced them off the glass by 2-3 mm either with a groove in the frame work or by gold sizing cork pads to Act as spacers. Fairly early on I read cassell's glass fascia work book which recommended an air gap. Also Bruce Barber our college teacher restored an old glass sign whilst we were at college, this also had an air gap.

Much old construction relied on air flow and breathability, think of lime plaster and mortar in old buildings. Adaquate air flow heals many ills. I also drill holes in the frame work of the soffit of the shop to allow air to move.

Brilliant signs "hermetically sealed" their pressed copper letters to the rear of the glass with gold size, lead foil & sometimes White lead putty, however the samples I've seen of one off hand carved brilliant signs with wood rear substrate are spaced off. Of course Brilliant signs would not have a problem with paint peeling lifting or scuffing as they fired the colour onto the glass by their trade marked "permanart" process.

Hi Perry, great to see you about, can't wait to catch up with you, I often talk about you and our antics!

Andy, I'll make sure to ring you next to
e I'm down your way.

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Good to be back

Post by DAVE SMITH » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:00 am

Ashley.
I have that same book your talking about ,some excellent reference to this type of work. I would imagine it is exactly the same as a cavity wall construction with air bricks fitted.

I did a search on glazed units and found this info which is exactly the same problem that was concerning this work.

Misting or Fogging of sealed units in double glazed windows is a common problem and most often occurs after the guarentee on the units has passed! Misty or Foggy windows can make a room look awful but repairing or replacing the sealed units is no longer a big problem.

The panes of glass used in double glazed windows are called sealed units. See our double glazing project for more about these. The panes are kept apart by a spacer bar which contains hundreds of tiny silica balls.

These same balls can be found in the little bag you receive when buying electrical goods and also in the trays bought from DIY stores which are placed on window cills to prevent condensation.

It is these balls which soak up any moisture which exists in the air between the two panes of glass.

Once the silica becomes saturated the moisture in the air will begin to mist, or fog up your double glazing.

This should not happen for at least 5 years from the date of installation and you should have a receipt from your double glazing company to guard against sealed units "breaking down". Most companies offer a 10 year guarantee.

The condensation and misting is a natural process in an old sealed unit and if it is past the sell by date, is nobodys fault. If the unit breaks down prior to the guarantee running out then the sealed unit should be replaced by the supplier.

It is now possible to rectify a broken down sealed unit. A small hole is drilled in the glass (can be done from outside in most cases) and a tiny vent installed. This job requires specialist equipment and is not a DIY task. It is certainly worth finding out about in your area as most of the repair companies state that up to 50% can be saved on the cost of a replacement sealed unit.


Thanks .
Dave

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Good to be back

Post by Jeff Lang » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:46 am

Ashley, Dave, & others,
I did my first carved fascia sign in the spring and was challenged by the issue of sealing the unit. I decided to use 1/2" wide double faced 3m emblem adhesive, very much like VHB tape offered by my sign supplier. I buy it from the local autobody repair supply & have had grest success with it's adhesion & durability in other uses.
the tape was put onto the panels first, about 1/4" from the edge to allow room for a caulking sealant once the glass was attached. the other thing I liked about this process was the thickness of the tape is .045", and was a good, minimal amount of space to keep the glass off of the panel.
Once I positioned the glass over the panel, I was able to remove the red adhesive liner and the glass would contact the tape & be locked in place.
The sealant was liberally worked into the edge of the unit, first with the caulking gun, then with a squeege.
We'll see how this holds up, but so far so good.
Jeff
Attachments
x-priory taped border.jpg
x-priory taped border.jpg (219.61 KiB) Viewed 4840 times
x-priory taped border with glass.jpg
x-priory taped border with glass.jpg (196.15 KiB) Viewed 4842 times
x-priory finished 2.jpg
x-priory finished 2.jpg (242.54 KiB) Viewed 4838 times
x-priory finished 1.jpg
x-priory finished 1.jpg (246.5 KiB) Viewed 4840 times
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by erik winkler » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:22 pm

Fietfieuuuw! Looks good.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

joe cieslowski
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: east canaan ct
Contact:

Re: Good to be back

Post by joe cieslowski » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:34 pm

Both are real beauties!!!

Jeff, did you use wood or HDU? I would think that would make a huge difference,

Some day I'm going to put together a sample of the rear lit/light reflecting/neon look/whatever it was that I showed you at Atlantic City a few years back. THAT would be totally over the top......someday.........................

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!

Jerry Berg
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: pacific northwest

Re: Good to be back

Post by Jerry Berg » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:30 pm

As Joe said. nice work on both of those! This is something I really want to do soon and this inspires me.

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Good to be back

Post by Jeff Lang » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:04 pm

Joe,
I think that is a very good point. I did use HDU, confident that there would much less chance of allowing moisture in.
Ashley,
You had said you used wood for the letters, can you explain how you attached the wood to the glass, if at all, or are they just positioned together?
Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Ashley Bishop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am

Re: Good to be back

Post by Ashley Bishop » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:40 am

Hi Jeff, your sign looks fantastic, especially the angle of the fitted sign.
I used oak faced MDF which was an offcut from an honours board for this sign.
I have used PVC or HDU in the past too.

I spaced it off the glass by 1/8" when making the wooden frame so that the air can circulate. My longest Known MDF glass fascia sign is 11 years old. The paint has lifted slightly in a corner due to water ingress, but otherwise it still looks good even in our dreadful climate! I'll attempt to post some photos at some point.

Cheers Ash

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests