A Mad scientist should just buy the Angelgilding kit!

[erik winkler]

I ask myself: What in godsname am I doing?!!!!

I had the crazy idea to get into liquid gilding, therefore I need a lot of chemicals and a lot of lab inventory.
In the proces Seleniumdixode (SeO2) is needed.
But my chemical suppliance dealer could not get this for me and sended pure selenium (Se) (black powder).

I need the SeO2, so how do I get it?
I searched and searched in the Netherlands a no links as where to get it.
What to do?

Now I am in the process to obtain SeO2 from the chemical reaction: H2O2 + Se → SeO2 + H2
Where H2O2 is Hydrogen peroxide, used in the real world as a bleach for teeth or just hair.
In this reaction H2 is formed which will vaporate out of the solution, because it is a gas.
Then I have to boil the solution down, so that I get the pure Seo2 white crystals, which I can use for liquid gilding.

First i have to calculate how much 50grams of pure Se is: the weight of one Mol is 78,96 grams.
So I have 0,63323202 Mol of Se.

Therefore I need 0,63323202 Mol of H202 to make a clean reaction without any leftovers.
1 Mol of H2O2 weighs 34.0147 grams, this means I need 21,5391972 grams of H2O2 to make a clean reaction with the 50 grams of Se.
So then I just need to boil the H2 away and boil it some more so that the water evaporates completely.
Hydrogen peroxide is comenly sold in a solution of 35%, this means that in one liter there is a amount of Mol......

NO NO NO!
This reaction will probably make a huge explosion! And is all to rediculous!!
I need something else as a stabiliser for the gilding solutions.
Or can anybody help me out with some 25 grams of Seleniumdioxide (SeO2)?

Tip for everybody else: Just buy your liquid gilding chemicals at http://www.angelgilding.com

[Kelly Thorson]

But then you wouldn't be nearly as entertaining, Erik.
Be careful though, will ya.

[Larry White]

Hey Erik-
Here's something to ponder....

Material Safety Data Sheet
Selenium dioxide MSDS

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Corrosive to eyes and skin.
The amount of tissue damage depends on length of contact. Eye contact can result in corneal damage or blindness. Skin
contact can produce inflammation and blistering. Inhalation of dust will produce irritation to gastro-intestinal or respiratory
tract, characterized by burning, sneezing and coughing. Severe over-exposure can produce lung damage, choking,
unconsciousness or death. Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation is
characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or, occasionally, blistering.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to blood, kidneys, liver, spleen, central nervous
system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure
of the eyes to a low level of dust can produce eye irritation. Repeated skin exposure can produce local skin destruction, or dermatitis. Repeated inhalation of dust can produce varying degree of respiratory irritation or lung damage. Repeated
exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human organs.

Protective Equipment:
Gloves. Synthetic apron. Vapor and dust respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent. Wear appropriate respirator when ventilation is inadequate. Splash goggles.

With that said, maybe ya otta just order the premade solutions....
But I don't know......
Good luck, heh?

[erik winkler]

Well thank you Kelly for your words.
And Larry thank you for your MSDS info, I read that before.
I was wandering if you guys new that you would probably already be using it in the liquid gilding kit you buy?
Like I stated above, here in Nederland there is no chemical firm who sells the Seleniumdioxide.

Maybe I should prepare the Selenium Dioxide by the dehydration of Selenous Acid.
This is the reaction: H2SeO3 → SeO2 + H2O
This should be very simple: put the Selenous Acid in a glas container and cook it until only white crystals remain.
But I should just be carefull not to overheat it because toxic fumes will form.

But on the other hand, if i have the the SeO2 kristals... when preparing the chemical solutions I will put the crystals in water anyway and it will form H2SeO3 again!

So the question is:
If I buy 50 grams of Selenous Acid (H2SeO3) how much grams of pure SeO2 would that be?

The Molar mass of H2SeO3 is 128,97408 grams.
So 50 grams of H2SeO3 is 0,38767479 Mol.
This equals to 0,38767479 Mol of SeO2.
The Molar mass of SeO2 is 110,96 grams.
So 0,38767479 Mol of SeO2 is 43,0163947 grams.

This means the following: 50 grams of H2SeO3 equals to circa 43 grams of SeO2

In the proces of liquid gilding this would mean if you need 10 grams of Seleniumdioxide (SeO2),
you could also use 11,6 grams of Selenous Acid (H2SeO3).
X=50/43

Hope you find my strugle amusing and maybe even informative.

Erik

[Larry White]

How about here?

http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10426/SLS3085



.

[Robare M. Novou]

Erik, I thinks you are a bit off the reservation.

But, if you are going to wander...wander over to the following link.

http://micronmetals.thomasnet.com/item/ ... de/se-601?

I paid $100 for a pound of the stuff back in 2004.

I forget how many grams are in a pound...but I am quite sure you can figure that out.

Oh wait, here it is in my notes...1 pound = 453.59237 grams....so that's 22.9¢ per gram.

(To get the cent sign...hold down the alt key and type 0162 on the numeric key pad to your right.)

Maybe you should give Dave Smith a shout...he must get the Selenium somewhere in England.

He might even have a wee bit to spare ya.

RMN

[erik winkler]

Thanks guys I will go into that.

Erik
103678 grams of mass
78,34645669 inch of height

[erik winkler]

Just got some SeO2, perfect!
Now I have to get some pure gold and I am on my way gilding chipped curved glass like there is no tomorrow.
Easier said then done in this time of high goldprices.

Angelerik

[Sarah King]

Being a self-taught chemist is a bit like being a self-taught electrician. Sometimes it works and sometimes there are, to be nice about it, "unintended consequences". It depends on whether you want to spend your time making stuff or using it. Making stuff is fun - lots of fun - but using stuff that you know is going to work saves a lot of time (money) and left-over materials (money). It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

[erik winkler]

Sarah,

Crazy Erik here.
I try to achieve the make the best golden mirrors available with my own made solutions.
It is very ambitious and I would certainly NOT recommend anybody to do it like this.
It costs much much more money, is very dangerous and like you stated it is not certain if it works.
Everyone is better off buying it from www.angelgilding.com

[Sarah King]

Thanks very much for the referral, Erik - I really appreciate it. As I said, making stuff is a lot a fun and especially learning how to make something you haven't done before. So enjoy - but be careful.