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The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

Mike Jackson
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Mike Jackson »

Hello all,
I should offer to post a "final" version of this article here on TheLetterheads.com. Roderick can fine tune his article with the help of the people here and give all contributors some credit. And, we can change it as necessary if more information is uncovered.

Also, Robare, if you are ready to write a Rawson & Evans history, I'd love to replace what is already on the site with your researched article. Unless you already have some plans for the info, this site (www.theletterheads.com) seems like a perfect home for it.

Cheers,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
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Robare M. Novou
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Sounds like a plan Mike, but first you gotta clean up some of those dead links that litter this wonderful site.

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
erik winkler
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by erik winkler »

What bugs me the most is the complete lack of respect shown by Roderick and that some people do not even notice it or agree with the mentallity portrait here.
The excluding of numerous people using "carrying on the traditionals of the past" is the same of mistakingly putting the facts down in the article like Robare has written.
Ofcourse this article is written in a way of self promoting. That in it self is no sin, but when the sentence: "The few of dedicated gold leaf glass sign writers carrying on the traditions of the past are: Roderick Treece of California, Larry White of California, David Smith of England, John Studden of California and Noel Weber of Idaho." is been publiced I get upset. Where are the others?
I can not stand the exclusion of people.
It seems this states that besides these names there are allmost none who do this kind of work.
Where is the desency to reply on my comment (twice); did I place the finger on a painfull spot or something?
Help? If help is only wanted in one way, then don't expect everybody to love the article when it is supposed to be a brief history of facts.
If you want to selfpromote your clan, do it! But please be honoust here and say it in black and white.
What will be next? Everybody will write an article about the technique and says he is the only one who still is "carrying on the traditions of the past"? Is this the Letterhead spirit?
I could be wrong, I could be misunderstanding the correct meaning of the phrase, because English is not my native tonque, but the lack of responding on my posts in this thread is certainly no misunderstanding.

So I again offer my help. Here is my suggestion: "A few of dedicated gold leaf glass sign writers carrying on the traditions of the past are: Roderick Treece of California, Larry White of California, David Smith of England, John Studden of California and Noel Weber of Idaho."
Or you could ad some other names, but that would be a long list... I am not so difficult....
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
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BruceJackson
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by BruceJackson »

Erik is right about the this. To name a handful of practitioners in this particular way gives a false impression of the scope of the art. I have no problem with citing a few key leading artists if you feel it's important, but it's also good to be aware of not falling into a trap of cult-like exclusivity and ignore those who don't follow an identical creed.

Rod, you already mentioned one claim on Ruavista of the "last practitioner of French-style signs" on Boulangeries. (Erik knows all about this too...hahaha, Did you ever manage to meet him Erik?) In fact, even the historic examples are often attributed to the best known studio, Benoist et Fils, yet there were other studios too.

I also read a blurb on a Italian guy doing verre eglomise ( in the 70's as being the only person who know about this stuff...Others have made similar claims of discovery and uniqueness.

Another one, "Since the death of Floris Jespers in 1965, the under glass painting techniques started disappearing again into thin air. Belgium 1985, Ferdinand Pire Ferdinand discovers the works of Floris Jespers and after several years of patient research, takes over the flame of this wonderful and magic technique."

It's not hard to feel that way if they don't see others exploring the same field, especially when they did their own original research.
Roderick Treece
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Roderick Treece »

Eric,
Read the article again. It talks about Rick Glawson and the Conclave. How we as a group kept "The Conclave" going in his honor. That part of the story is about our small group, our history, not the rest of the gilding world. You don't see any of the other great gilders in our group that I didn't mention winning about it do you.
If you want to write an article about the gilders around the world go ahead , be my guest.
According to Ruavista there"s only one Frenchman left in the world the creates glass signs anyway so why worry about it.
erik winkler
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by erik winkler »

So now it is winning, is it?
Well that means that all art historians are winning, remember I am a master in art history and I have been taught that not every wrtitten description is right and that you should allways read the stated facts in light of the time and producer. If this article is written with the title:
"The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs" then do not state it is about your group your conclave and the honour of rick glawson.
So let me teach you Roderiq:
Title is the shortest summeray of a written document.
Your title is: "The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs", that means in baby language: the whole article is about gilded glass signs.
And that does not mean "Rick Glawson and the Conclave. How we as a group kept "The Conclave" going in his honor. That part of the story is about our small group, our history" aka the Roderique clan.

Further in the article you introduce Rick Glawson: "Rick Glawson would dedicate himself to rediscovering long-lost techniques and materials",
He taught many, and in the second or third generation yours truly (and I am thankfull, just wish I could have thanked him personally), but as Bruce already explained to you, it was not completely lost, let alone long-lost.

Then you finish your 'selfpromotion' with the text: "where the timeless craft of gold Leaf glass signs is being kept alive by a handful of dedicated glass sign artists". This is exactly in line with the title and then you write down THE FEW...
No Doderic, do not throw sand in people's eyes with saying that I am winning, that would mean you do not have any regards of the intelligence for the people on this forum.
The fact that 'other great gilders in our group' did not mention my words; speaks for their humbleness and decency, but you should realise by now I am brought up in a different culture.
When I was a kid, I stood up for the kids who where bullied. Even if they did not asked for my help, I think that is just me and I still am the same.
History must be written down correctly. So if some people are too modest to express their grief here, that does not mean your 'history' about "The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs" is correct.

I will finish my post with this: "If you want to write an article about your conclave history go ahead, but do not fool me and other readers it is about something else.
So the second alteration of your text would then be changing the title into: "A brief history about the glass gilding conclaves".

Be my guest.
Last edited by erik winkler on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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www.schitterend.eu
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Kelly Thorson
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Kelly Thorson »

I'm not saying anyone should intentionally post misinformation, but if there are inconsistencies or errors in a publication, then I think the constructive thing would be to point them out and supply the correct information. There are tons of historical documents that have errors, however they still have great worth. Would it be better that they were never written because of that? What about all the correct information that has been preserved in them? The most famous book of all time is filled with contradictions and clashing interpretations, but has immense worth to many, because each part becomes a part of the whole.

My comment was not meant as adversarial, perhaps I would have been better to post the above paragraph, or maybe it is still as inflammatory to some. I find Rodd very generous in his willingness to share information and techniques. A later more informative post in regards to what the errors were deemed to be, was much more in keeping with what I understood this all to be about.

The art of gilding was here long before any of us and I suspect it will continue long after. Are we actually "The" Keepers of the Craft, perhaps in some part we are part of the whole, but it reaches far and beyond this corner and this website. There is a wealth of great information available, kudos to those who willing share it, be it here or elsewhere.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Anthony Bennett
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Anthony Bennett »

I liked Rodericks piece.
I salute him for giving it a go, if those who know more than I do (not hard) find fault then it is encouraging that they offer support to Roderick to improve that body of work.

But PLEASE lets not turn it all into an attack on Roderick, as it is starting to read like everyone is having a go because Roderick thought and DID something everyone else wishes they HAD thought of and done.

To quote Ringo Starr. "Peace and Love"
Mike Jackson
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Mike Jackson »

Please let me throw out a few things on this topic.

First, as an administrator, I'd prefer to see people isolate a sentence or paragraph that doesn't sound quite right to them, and then offer a suggestion in the form of a corrected sentence or paragraph. Someone else will likely correct your sentence or paragraph for you, too. If this article is going to be on line on this site, there is no reason we couldn't list EVERYONE that does gold leaf and create the links to them.

Second, there is no way any article is going to please everyone, so feel free to write your own version of the whole thing and post it on this forum.

Robare, I clicked through all the links in the left navigation bar. Quick Price is gone and Airbrush Art Magazine is apparently gone. Those were the only two links dead that I could find. There might be some dead links on the Hard to Find Supplies page as that was written in the months following Rick's passing. If you see items that have dead links, please let me know or find the correct link and include that. Also, if you or anyone knows of a product that needs to be added to the list, I can add it at the same time. Danny and I spent a lot of time creating the page back then but I don't spend a lot of time trying to keep it current.

Lastly, The Hand Lettering Forum was created originally by Sarah Schwartz many years ago. She gave it the name and it has been used since. (She passed away a few years ago) It was created as a quiet alternative to some of the other bulletin boards. The current site sponsors and administrators hope to keep this forum "on topic" as much as possible and hope people post in a tactful, positive tone. Stated another way, please state your messages and corrections without the cutting edges and barbs.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
erik winkler
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by erik winkler »

At this point I would suggest one alteration:
Change 'The' in to 'A'
No one is in facto excluded and your name is in the article.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Roderick Treece
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Re: The Art of Gold Leaf Glass Signs

Post by Roderick Treece »

"A" new Rawson and Evans ad I found. Is it really true about the Gnus ?

http://www.periodpaper.com/index.php/19 ... ss-chicago
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