What about pricing.........?

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vance galliher
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What about pricing.........?

Post by vance galliher » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:00 pm

I could care less about how much you make or don’t make per year. I know there
are people on this forum that gross under 20k per year and those that go well beyond 500k. What people make per year is not the point of this inquiry, but more to the point of what people charge for their glass art. In a recent post, Newest glass sign Go to page: 2 , where Roderick shows his beautiful work, Bob asked him about what he charged for a current project, and Roderick replied,
Sorry I can't disclosed prices in a public forum. Your welcome to call me about it…..”

A few days later Bob posted pics of his beautiful recent work and said…..
“Just wanted to share a job I gilded today in the west village. The Goodwin Wine Bar and Cafe. Nice People, the space is kinda hidden but super cool, typical west village nyc. Will open next month. Door gilding was a 19" circle $600. 2 Side windows 30" wide x about 2" high $150 each. Transom number 4" high $300…..”

And then Eric writes,
Wait a minute Bob. 150 dollars each?
In goldleaf?
Hmmm in my opinion your work is worth more. I would ask double...

First off, thank you Bob for "revealing" some of your pricing. I might have charged a little more than $1200, but not by much. Some might have charged $800, and for someone else $3000 would be possible………who knows ?
Most skilled trades people; ie, plumbers/carpenters/electricians and such seem to have standards rates. But unlike other trades, I would think those of us who do this type glass work see ourselves more as artist. And as “artist”, I’m not sure there is a “standard” pay rate. That’s why seeing what others are charging for this work provides value to us who do this work. I have never understood why pricing has always been such a guarded secret by some. I’m not suggesting that ever piece you show here should have a price tag attached, but I find it somewhat amusing that information on how to do things is so freely given, but pricing is hardly ever mentioned, and only then behind closed doors. What is the reason for that? Is it that the Taxman is watching,…. is it a legal thing, …are we too embarrassed by how little or by how much we charge for gold leaf glasswork? I thought that as a “brotherhood community” of like minded sign artist, we leave the ego at the door, and walk in to share freely………Sharing how to do and how to price seems to me like friends walking down the same path………..just a thought on this Thursday morning…….
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

Roderick Treece
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:45 pm

Vance,
I am not at liberty to give out price on forums due to my clients privacy. When I post photos of on going work my client keep up with the process through the forum.

As I mensioned before,

Anyone is welcome to call me any time and I will let them in on what I charge pricing.

No " guarded secrets"

vance galliher
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by vance galliher » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:16 pm

thanks for reply Rod . I only used your post on the matter because it was the most recent on the subject of pricing. I'm not sure why a client would mind, but that's between you and your client. Aside from that, and when there is no privacy issue, why can't we have conversations about how and what we charge for our gold leaf glasswork. I always want to know not only how "our"people do what they do, but also what they charge. It's just an interest of mine.
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

erik winkler
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by erik winkler » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:24 pm

Let me start then... :)
First of all I have the same questions and nobody on the forum ever replied in a concrete way.
The overall answers, if i remember correctly, were:
1. overhead
2. used materials
3. price of goldleaf
4. how many hours do you think you will work on this job.
5. a little or more profit

But for every job this is different and it indeed would be helpfull if people would write down their prices of these 5 points with every job they had. Nit only to know if your prices are too high, but even more to check if your prices are not to low.
We all like what we are doing here, but like (i think Mike) often writes in some way or the other in his artilcles: the bills have to be paid.

- Our prices for normal vinyl work is 55 euro's for one hour.
- Our prices for Desk Top Publishing is 60 euro's for one hour, we are rasing this to 65 euro's for the conceptual specialistic things.
- Goldleaf work will not leave my studio under 60 euro's for one hour eventhough I would like the jobs every day.
Goldleaf would be 6 packs with 25 leaves for one layer square meter and normally, for glass, i like a double gild and that would be 12 packs for one square meter. My general calculation for applying the goldleaf is the same money as the goldleaf itself is.
So one square meter on glass 12 packs about 35 euro's per pack is 420 euro (discounts are for my savings) and applying would be the same costs. So one square meter of perfectly layed goldleaf would cost a client 840 euro's.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Larry White
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by Larry White » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:37 pm

Hi Vance-
I have an "Available Now" section on my website. If you click on the thumbnail, it will bring
up a larger picture, which also shows the size and the asking price. You can deduct $200-$300
for the fancy frames, and you can see what I charge, not that there's any set formula. The more
techniques on a piece, the higher the price. That last one I did, the Lloyd & Magnus sign (with
the santa pictorial), I got $5,800, with the frame provided. I would have to think that not everyone
would see the value in that, but different people have different scales of monetary value... $5,800
is pocket change for a millionaire, but a lot of money for me and you. After studying and practicing
this craft for 20+ years, I'm glad I have found a few folks that see this art as valuable. The client
that ordered that commission loved the piece, and said it exceeded all his expectations. He has
asked me to quote another one. I've got plenty of other things to do than to spend a lot of hours on
a project for someone else for chump change. ...But then again, I don't make my living from it.

My pricing can vary depending on the client...friend price, private individual price, and corporate
price could be different for the same thing.

A friend of mine once told me, "If you're gonna sell your life to someone, make sure you get as
much as you can." And another friend said, "When it comes to pricing, make 'em say 'ouch', but
still order the job."

I love this craft, and will do it customer or not, though it is really nice to make some sales.

P.S. I had one of bonsai trees displayed at a Northern California bonsai event priced at $5,000.
A lot of people had some sticker shock, while others thought the price was quite reasonable.

So now ya know...


.

erik winkler
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by erik winkler » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:47 am

Larry White wrote:And another friend said, "When it comes to pricing, make 'em say 'ouch', but
still order the job.
I like this... We try to do this with everything we make. I do not work for fun, I work because i need a living. Working deprives me from having free time doing fun, cycling, traveling, eating etc.... Live is just too short. Everyday making quotes I try to make the correct prices which balnces between ouch and my investment of investing lost time in quality living time.
Seems strange for some people, but that is just my (maybe Dutch) way of mentality. Even in a time of depression it is sometimes hard to keep up this spirit, but i would rather walk on my travels then drive a car and do to much work for a little profit. Am a lazy? Absolutely not, we work like crazy with a lot of passion and feeling for the client, but we just want to be rewarderd in the same way.

I just checked the website of Larry and see his work which I highly respect and enjoy, but for me I would be the client with no sticker shock and think the prices could all be raised by 25%. Ofcourse the first thoughts would be: "Yes Erik (with a K) you could say all this, but then you will not sell your work anymore".
Well:
1. Too bad, i like this work too much that i would sell it for too litlle, rather keep it myself :wink:
2. We all know only rich people can afford this type of work anyway so this extra needed 25% is just something of an extra dime for the client.

Then there is the artistic value of this type of work....
How is it possible that a photoprint behind plexiglas could be 10.000 dollars (i print these same things for 200 dollars) and this ONE OF A KIND glass work is valued lower. That in it self means that the concept, the feeling you get when looking at the piece is most important. Therefore i keep telling myself to try and get out of the signage designs when doing this work. But that is probably the most hard thing.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Larry White
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by Larry White » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:44 am

I agree with you Erik with a K. :D

I'd rather enjoy looking at the art for the rest of my days,
than to look at a pile of money for a few weeks then its gone.

You're also right, that those prices should be 25% higher, as
they were priced some time ago.

When I finished the Lloyd & Magnus sign, my wife jokingly said,
"Send him his money back."


.

erik winkler
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by erik winkler » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:06 am

I like your wife' words.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Ismael Alvarado
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by Ismael Alvarado » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:46 am

vance galliher wrote:I could care less about how much you make or don’t make per year. I know there
are people on this forum that gross under 20k per year and those that go well beyond 500k.…….
I used to earn $500 a month here in Nicaragua, now I may earn a less now but I´m doing what I always wished for.. "Spray On Chrome"... :P

Anthony Bennett
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by Anthony Bennett » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:54 am

500k a year hmmmmm.

I understand Rodericks point, the client might not want others to know what they can afford.
I wish the UK had the vast amount of inspiration that "americana" gives to Larry in those fantastic pieces.

vance galliher
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by vance galliher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:03 pm

Thank you to all who respond to this conversation………
I agree with Larry’s statement that the more techniques on a piece, the higher the price.
When I started doing signs some 35 years ago in Santa Cruz, all I did was hand carved redwood, and the acceptable pricing method at the time was by the square foot and time spent. The focus of my work now is more dimensional aluminum and glasswork, and my method of pricing has become “perceived value”. I still figure the material cost, but the main factor in my pricing is just a number I write down that makes me smile…..and that is especially true with gold leaf glasswork. For me, it would be impossible to figure this work by the hour, and I would have no interest in doing so. It really does seem to be a case of what the market will bear
Last edited by vance galliher on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

bob gamache
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by bob gamache » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:45 pm

Great topic Vance!
Just to cut to the quick.....for on site glass gilding I charge by the square foot, plus travel(gas tolls parking) not by the hour. I charge between $250 and $300 per sq ft. I normally complete most of my smaller jobs in one day.( Similar to the job I posted the other day ) For mirrors and glass signs I charge the same sq ft rate plus the price of the glass, silvering, and shipping etc.

The addition of Intense artwork or illustrations similar to larrys or rods top notch work would definately demand a higher price due to artistic endeavor!

Gotta go, my magic black cat is demanding dinner!
Bob Gamache

vance galliher
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by vance galliher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:17 pm

hahaaaaa........one of my cats is all black, ........... and he's a wonderful cat and very demanding ! I'm glad you think it's a great topic Bob. It has always been an interest of mine, ........how to price "art" ? And who's to say why this landscape sells for $2oo and that one for $2000. I really feel it has to be "perceived value", and of course if your work is of solid gold, that certainly adds into the factor. I really hope this topic spawns some conversation about how and why we price what we do. I only know that having fun with what you love doing is priceless
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

vance galliher
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by vance galliher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:42 pm

and I must add that the top notch work that you Bob, Larry, Erik, and Rod share with us is really an inspiration .....and I truly appreciate your effort and time
vance
dimensional and glass art signs
http://www.vancegallihersigns.com

erik winkler
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Re: What about pricing.........?

Post by erik winkler » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:17 am

Maybe one could post a few goldleafed signs and some with extra techniques and name them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
So the replies would be:

1. 400 dollars
2. 650 dollars
3. 1850 dollars
4. 940 dollars
5. 2000 dollars
6. 5000 dollars
7. 12.500 dollars
Without VAT, shipping and dtp/design.

If someone wants to place some of mine work in the list no problem.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

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