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Angel Gilding.

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

I did my first glass sign with glue chipping and Angel Gilding a couple of weeks ago and I must say, it's more difficult than I had imagined. I think I must not have cleaned the surface well enough. It took 3 tries to get any gold to stick to my chipped or smooth surfaces. Here's a pic of it for what it's worth.
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Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Looks like you have it down for the most part. Am guessing the chemicals came from Sarah King and have always found them reliable. The thinness of the covering just requires a better deposit which you'll get with letting the tin sit on the glass longer before rinsing and making sure you're not losing it all with some sort of ... (if possible) on the edges. If not (and it's probably a good idea anyway) you'll need to up the amount of gold per square ft in the initial measurements. A finish of silver will add some "heft" to the thickness and give a rich full tone. Keep up the good work as you're on the right track.
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Hey Doug, thx for the reply. The chemicals came from Angle gilding's' website. I did lay down a coat of silver on it, but the gold barely shows. Have you heard of anyone making their own gold solution? I pretty much have everything to make my own, just lack the knowledge on what portions to mix.
erik winkler
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by erik winkler »

Ask Robare Nouveau.
He thaught me some tricks...
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Doug Christie
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Thanks Eric..... now where the heck is Robare Nouveau. :D
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Robare M. Novou »

It's Novou...not Nouveau!

And the link for the information you seek is:http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com/liquidgold.html

Some of the things you might want to try before you reach for the first aid cabinet are:

1.) Making sure it is very warm when do your "Angel Gilding", 90° or above...yeah, you're gonna sweat a little...so what.

2.) Make fresh tin size before you "Angel Gild", make it a little stronger than the instructions say.

3.) Clean your piece of glass with Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid, which can be purchased at the hardware store), rinse well, apply fresh tin, keep the entire surface of the glass wet with the fresh tin size for over a minute. If you let any portion of the surface dry during the tinning process, your surface will oxidize (take on oxygen molecules)...this oxidation prevents proper adhesion of the gold to the tin.

So after your tin has sat on the glass for the required minute plus...rinse it off with distilled water, and make sure the surface stays wet while you do the rinsing, lots of rinsing. You should end up with a level piece of glass that may or may not have a dam around it to retain the rinse water and your gilding solutions that you are about to apply. I recommend the dam. There's a special waterproof tape that you can use to make a tape dam, or you can use a hot glue gun and make a dam that way. Dave Smith swabs his tin on...yes, a slight rubbing, so what?!

4.) Pour a little straight gold solution into this rinse water that is still on the glass. Straight gold solution is gold solution that you have not added the reductant solution to.

5.) You should now have a dammed, tinned, rinsed, gold solution enhanced water bearing surface with no bare glass showing. And don't stick your finger in it! ... it!

6.) Depending on your delivery system, two single sprayers or one double sprayer...make sure you start spraying the gold down first...if you start with the reductant first, you will burn the tin off the glass and nothing will stick. That's why I had you pour in a little straight gold solution...to act as a buffer barrier between the tin and the reductant. ... that reductant!

7.) Now start spraying on the reductant solution along with the gold solution. Easy does it there Tiger! Once you feel you have given your glass a good coating...stand back and watch the magic...and don't stick your finger in it-What did I just tell you!

8.) If this doesn't work for you, then you can't follow instructions, and you should find a new hobby or stick with silvering.
Heck...a blind person can silver. And if your reading this, I know you're not blind, because I don't type in braille!

9.) Also, it appears that freshly made and aged gilding solutions work better than stuff that has been sitting on the shelve for a few weeks, this includes the gold solution. This is the method I use, and it works for me...that said it may or may not work for you. But what have you got to lose, besides your mind, which you obviously have been losing since you started this project.

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Sarah King
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Sarah King »

Doug, that is a beautiful piece of work. Like everything else worth doing, it takes practice but you seem to have succeeded in a pretty short time. Proper cleaning is extremely important and there are a lot of ways to clean the glass that don't involve muriatic acid (which, after all is not a detergent).

With our Angel Gilding formula (Schweig's formula) you do have to apply two layers of gold to get a 24 karat result. One layer gives an 18 karat look. We have some ideas on how to improve the gold formula but we've been busy with our spray silver ideas and haven't had a chance to do all the necessary tests yet.

So many ideas - so little time. Anyway, I'm glad to see how great your piece looks.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Robare, thanks a lot for the info. Sometimes with being on a forum, you post asking questions and nobody answers. I've been scouring the WWW for mths looking for any info. on Angel Gilding. How to make it and what not. I'm not sure if it's less or more expensive, but I'm the kinda'
guy that has to know everything about a subject I'm trying to learn. Unfortunately, info. is a bit limited or people just don't want to share etc. Don't those people know I'm in a hurry! :D :P

There seems to be a void to fill in my little town and I'm going to fill it, if I can. Robare, I did most everything you suggested, with the exception of

1. The heat was cool. I warmed the room up after two tries at laying down some gold. It worked the 3rd time and I put a layer of silver on top of it.
2. I tried tinning (fresh tin) for the required time as stated in the instructions. I also tinned over top of the first 2 attempts and rinsed with dist water. I had a dam of masking tape that was useless. So I ended up just swirling the mixture on the glass with my fingers. :shock:

3. As far as cleaning go's. I just used windex and a rinse with dist water. I have a feeling this doesn't cut it. HCL the next time for sure. I also got some cleaner from a wholesale supplier that is oxalic acid. It has some grit to it.

4. I was going to use silicon as a dam or I have some mastic.

5. I have a feeling that I'm going to need more chemicals. I used 1/2 of it so far on one crummy little piece of glass. :cry: and I did to put my fingers in it! They're still purple after two weeks.

6. I just poured it on, all at once.

7. I tinned for a minute and just mixed the final chemical and just kinda swirled it around with my..wait for it!...FINGERS. :P

8. I got my chemicals last winter and I'm just getting around to using them now. ( I couldn't make the panels and ribbon that I purchased, work. So I put it down for a few mths and just got back into it a mth ago or so.

Thanks again Robare

Doug
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Sarah King wrote:Doug, that is a beautiful piece of work. Like everything else worth doing, it takes practice but you seem to have succeeded in a pretty short time. Proper cleaning is extremely important and there are a lot of ways to clean the glass that don't involve muriatic acid (which, after all is not a detergent).

With our Angel Gilding formula (Schweig's formula) you do have to apply two layers of gold to get a 24 karat result. One layer gives an 18 karat look. We have some ideas on how to improve the gold formula but we've been busy with our spray silver ideas and haven't had a chance to do all the necessary tests yet.

So many ideas - so little time. Anyway, I'm glad to see how great your piece looks.
Thanks for the kind words Sarah. I knew I must have done something wrong, but that's OK. We learn from our mistakes (hopefully).

Doug
Sarah King
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Sarah King »

Hi Doug,

I think that your main problem was the cleaning process. Windex doesn't work because it is designed to leave a dirt repelling film on the glass. So are most dish soaps like Dawn. The only grocery store cleaner we like is Sparkle. It's not available everywhere but it does work well.

A detergent is a molecule that holds onto water on one end and oil on the other end. It actually lifts grease off of the glass. Muriatic acid and oxalic acid are powerful and dangerous but they are not detergents. That's why we use and sell non-toxic , laboratory quality, clean rinsing detergents when we Angel Gild. If the tin does not come into direct chemical contact with the glass it won't work. Angel Gilding is chemistry and a very little amount of stray chemicals from your fingers can have a very big effect on the result. Our non-toxic Gold Remover will get the purple off your fingers if you want - although colloidal gold (Purple of Cassius) it is a very beautiful color.

We don't recommend using tape or silicone for the same reason that we are careful about cleaning. The fewer chemicals you introduce into the process the fewer chances you have for messing up the chemistry. Surface tension holds the chemicals on the glass just fine - if the glass is really clean. We have a video of surface tension in action on our website at http://angelgilding.com/PouringSilverVideo.html

I hope these suggestions help!
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

I'm pretty sure you're right about that Sarah. Thanks for the new info.

Doug
Sarah King
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Sarah King »

You're welcome.

As I said, its a beautiful piece of work - so much detail in such a small space. I would love to post it in our Customer's Gallery if you would like to send me a jpg.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi again Doug....I've had no issues with Sarah's angel gild solutions and have used them a number of times. The key is as she mentioned "clean" and properly tinned glass. There's really no mystic's required to help you with it just add more solution than you think you require.....which means pre-mixing a day or so in advance. Warm water and in general keeping the glass warm and wet through-out the process is also a positive. Just follow the instructions and be prepared to spend the time experimenting. Don't be under the pressure of a deadline and try to get it working on the first go. If I have only one glass piece to do I use regular leaf. Multiples are the perfect time for Angel Gild. One of the great things about the solutions method is the gild is much brighter and I'd call it closer to a 26k gild. The down side is of course getting the right amount measured out a day in advance to get this gild. If you're interested in mixing your own chemicals and all that, Bruno Schwiegs book is a must. I personally would rather buy an off the shelf item and get to the fun....just a personal choice.
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Doug Bernhardt wrote:Hi again Doug....I've had no issues with Sarah's angel gild solutions and have used them a number of times. The key is as she mentioned "clean" and properly tinned glass.
Yes. I believe the cleanliness was the culprit. As far as making my own solution. I just like that kinda thing. :D You could find me as a child ripping apart dry cells to get the carbon rods out of it so I could electroplate things using my electric train transformer. I was hoping it would be somewhat less expensive than off the shelf. It would make the learning curve less painful.
Last edited by Doug Christie on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Well there Doogie.... if you're in the mood
http://www.amazon.com/Bruno-Schweig/e/B001KECIOQ
is what you need!! I have and read the book although I'm like I said...."a let's get to the fun" guy. I'd be patient as the book will show up from time to time for much less than $100. Having said all this....I was experimenting with Angel Gild (gold chloride) 15 or so years ago. The great Glawson formula missed some important things like PH balance etc etc which made it unpredictable. He was an amazing man and just needed a little more time in life. The process itself is old old old....there are amazing "survival" period pieces in England from late 19th century like the Victoria near Paddington if you care to make the trip as I did. Good luck in your quest if you choose to take it on Sir Douglas. Also...sorry I didn't see your replies sooner.....has been hectic here and just not able to get to my computer as often as I should.
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Well now Mr. Christie,

I agree with what Sarah has to say about the Hydrochloric Acid not being a detergent. My suggestion for you to use it was based on my assumed belief that you had already properly cleaned the glass as per Sarah's Angel Gilding Instructions. Some Solutions Gilders and Silvering Techs use Hydrochloric Acid as an additional cleaning/prep step after the proper initial cleaning.

It's a step you can omit, but because you were having a Devil of a time Angel Gilding...I thought I would mention it.

But now I see that you did not follow instructions, Sarah's or mine.

DO NOT USE SILICONE or MASKING TAPE to make your dam.
Use a HOT GLUE GUN or get some WATER PROOF TAPE.

THE HOT GLUE GUN can be purchase at a Hardware or Craft Store.

The WATER PROOF TAPE can be purchased from 3M tape vendors, or Gold Plating Supply Vendors. It's Very Expensive...but it works like a charm...if you can get a roll for under $100, get it.

DO NOT USE WINDEX to clean your glass. Get the proper cleaning chemicals from Sarah, Peacock Labs, or Mirror Tech.
I recommend Sarah, because she is in our Forum.

Mr. Bernhardt is right about the Schweig Formula Book, it's a great book, filled with all sorts of metal coating glass formulas and insight.

But it does not tell you how to make gold chloride, only how to use it in a formula.
The book shows up from time to time with a price that varies from $50 to $200.
$100 or less is always a good price to pay for that book.

Also, If you truly want to understand the process fully, don't limit yourself to one book or one supplier, they are all valid and essential to your broader understanding of the gold to glass conundrum. Get all the books about the subject that you can, try out all the chemicals that you can. Someday you may be able to report back to us something that we may have overlooked.

I would further suggest that you purchase a few more refill kits from Sarah and work on getting the hang of getting the Angel Gilding Solutions to properly adhere to the glass.

Once you have mastered that, you can then venture forth and learn how to make your own Gold Chloride.

You can purchase my book, which instructs you on how to make gold chloride and also how to recover your spent gold solutions for future use.

That's right, you had better be saving all that gold solution that you are now using/wasting!!!
Get a 5 gallon bucket from a paint store...they usually sell for $5, it comes with a lid, use it!

You can reclaim it later. Not sure if you are also using Gold Leaf for anything, but those leftovers can be reclaimed too.

My book also has about 20 formulas starting with the very first British Patent, up to and including the Schweig Formula. An interesting read for sure. Information that you could spend 20 years searching for, I know, I did.

Get some Nitrile Gloves at the Drug Store, they cost more that the latex gloves, but they last longer, and you won't end up with purple fingers.

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Danny Baronian
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Danny Baronian »

After seeing how you prepped the glass, it's surprising there was any disposition. I've used Sarah's kits in every flavor - gold, copper, silver, lead nitrate (galena), and following the directions supplied will produce good results.
Suggestions regarding building a dam on the glass, or using acid as a prep/cleaning method only adds unnecessary work.

The biggest problem I see, is dirty glass / containers, causing possible chemical contamination during mixing.

Are you aware of what you're sticking your fingers into? Not all, but many chemicals contain carcinogens. Carcinogen's: think cancer, as well as
heavy metals, not of the rock kind. Those that exposure to has been linked to immune, kidney and neurotic disorders.

To assure success in solution gilding, it is necessary to insure the surface absolutely clean, tinned and forcefully rinsed. If you're uncertain on the process, read the instructions,
Sarah has instruction sheets, as well as training videos posted online.

In any type of gilding, if water beads off the glass prior to gilding, it will not deposit well, same for gelatin size.

The best way to learn solution, IMO is to start with silver solution. The solutions differ, but the principal is the same, and is less expensive. When you get that down, go for the gold.

I disagree of the comment regarding the Schweig Book not containing gold formula. It actually has thirteen formulas specifically on gold disposition. Anyone that's read the book will know the man
throughly tested what he wrote about, it wasn't theoretical.

Stick by Doug B's advice: use a warm water bath (90 - 100°) to warm the solutions, and 'buy an off the shelf item and get to the fun'.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Well now Mr. Christie,

Mr. Baronian makes some more valid points, especially when it comes to the containers you use to mix and apply your solutions with. Sometimes cross contamination can occur if you use inappropriate or dirty vessels. Check with Sarah...she will tell which containers to use.

Mr. Baronian also makes a strong case for starting out with silvering solutions first, as opposed to jumping right into the Angel Gilding. It's akin to learning how to ride a bicycle, in that you first start out with training wheels and after some experience with that, you take off the training wheels and have a go at it with only two wheels. Get the hang of silvering first, once you have mastered that...then move on to the more difficult and expensive gold solution gilding.

When it comes to the Schweig Book, there are plenty of formulas in it for making silver, gold, and other metal to glass solutions. But nowhere in the book does it tell you how to make "Gold Chloride"...which is IMO, a major component in Angel Gilding Solutions.

Also, when it comes to backing up your Angel Gilding with Silver Solution, as others have stated, you will end up with a less than 24k gold look if you don't have enough gold coverage for sure. I can usually tell if I don't have enough coverage, if I can see thru the gold to the front of the glass and say read a newspaper or see my hand, then I do not have enough gold coverage.

When the glass is laying flat, and you are gilding or silvering, you can observe what's ever beneath the glass slowly start to disappear, once you can no longer see beneath your metallic layer...you will know that you have sufficient coverage.

In one of the patent formulas, there is a mention of using a solution of copper nitrate (I believe that was the chemical) to apply to the back of your gold solution deposition. This chemical concoction was addressed as a toner for darkening the 24k gold. I have tried it, but my attempts left zero results. I am hopeful that someday Mike and Sarah King can give it a go and figure it out; as popular forum consensus seems to favor the opinion that some patent information can be less the honest or accurate.

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Sarah King
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Sarah King »

Understanding how things work certainly helps you to do a better job. I never thought of taking batteries apart but I might try it one day. I even still have my electric train transformer. I'd love to know more about electroplating.

Mike and I tried making our own gold chloride but we found out that getting it exactly right so that the acidity was the same every time was not worth the hassle and now we buy it. We think that the variable acidity was one of the problems Rick had with his gold.

The same thing applies to rest of the chemistry. Buying the right chemicals and measuring and mixing them properly are crucial. Most chemical suppliers only sell chemicals in large batches. By the time you buy all the chemicals and all the measuring equipment and learn how to measure and mix everything in the right order you have spent more time and money than you would have spent buying the finished product from us. Making the chemical solutions is one job, using them to make perfect glass signs is another. It depends on how you want to spend your time. We wouldn't be in this business if Mike did not have a Masters degree in inorganic chemistry.

Reclaiming the gold is a very tempting idea but again, we tried it and discovered that if you are using the Angel Gilding chemicals correctly there is almost no gold left in the run-off - its all on the glass where it's supposed to be. The chemicals you need to reclaim it and purify it cost more than the gold (or silver) is worth - which is why so few people are in the business of buying chemical waste.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Doug Bernhardt wrote:Also...sorry I didn't see your replies sooner.....has been hectic here and just not able to get to my computer as often as I should.
Thanks Doug. No need to apologize. I should be lying prostrate on the floor while in the presents of such a talented group of artisans. I went and had a look at your website. Man.............you do some nice work Doug.
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Robare M. Novou wrote:Well now Mr. Christie,

I agree with what Sarah has to say about the Hydrochloric Acid not being a detergent. My suggestion for you to use it was based on my assumed belief that you had already properly cleaned the glass as per Sarah's Angel Gilding Instructions. Some Solutions Gilders and Silvering Techs use Hydrochloric Acid as an additional cleaning/prep step after the proper initial cleaning.

It's a step you can omit, but because you were having a Devil of a time Angel Gilding...I thought I would mention it.

But now I see that you did not follow instructions, Sarah's or mine.

DO NOT USE SILICONE or MASKING TAPE to make your dam.
Use a HOT GLUE GUN or get some WATER PROOF TAPE.

THE HOT GLUE GUN can be purchase at a Hardware or Craft Store.

The WATER PROOF TAPE can be purchased from 3M tape vendors, or Gold Plating Supply Vendors. It's Very Expensive...but it works like a charm...if you can get a roll for under $100, get it.

DO NOT USE WINDEX to clean your glass. Get the proper cleaning chemicals from Sarah, Peacock Labs, or Mirror Tech.
I recommend Sarah, because she is in our Forum.

Mr. Bernhardt is right about the Schweig Formula Book, it's a great book, filled with all sorts of metal coating glass formulas and insight.

But it does not tell you how to make gold chloride, only how to use it in a formula.
The book shows up from time to time with a price that varies from $50 to $200.
$100 or less is always a good price to pay for that book.

Also, If you truly want to understand the process fully, don't limit yourself to one book or one supplier, they are all valid and essential to your broader understanding of the gold to glass conundrum. Get all the books about the subject that you can, try out all the chemicals that you can. Someday you may be able to report back to us something that we may have overlooked.

I would further suggest that you purchase a few more refill kits from Sarah and work on getting the hang of getting the Angel Gilding Solutions to properly adhere to the glass.

Once you have mastered that, you can then venture forth and learn how to make your own Gold Chloride.

You can purchase my book, which instructs you on how to make gold chloride and also how to recover your spent gold solutions for future use.

That's right, you had better be saving all that gold solution that you are now using/wasting!!!
Get a 5 gallon bucket from a paint store...they usually sell for $5, it comes with a lid, use it!

You can reclaim it later. Not sure if you are also using Gold Leaf for anything, but those leftovers can be reclaimed too.

My book also has about 20 formulas starting with the very first British Patent, up to and including the Schweig Formula. An interesting read for sure. Information that you could spend 20 years searching for, I know, I did.

Get some Nitrile Gloves at the Drug Store, they cost more that the latex gloves, but they last longer, and you won't end up with purple fingers.

RMN
Well now Mr. Noveau. LOL (jk) :D :p Let me start by saying that of all the people in the world, you Sir, are the only other person that called me Doogie!

Now, as to your tirade. lol :oops: Let me say this, about that! :mrgreen: I almost used my glue gun, but it left such a decrepit looking mess I thought I could get away with this,
IMG_3112.png
IMG_3112.png (265.7 KiB) Viewed 22942 times
an asphalt based mastic.

I used this,
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and this,
IMG_3103.png
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to get this,
IMG_3101.png
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so I could do this,
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and eventually, to get here,
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and then here
IMG_3112.png
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.

You may notice that the container I'm using to hold the glass, is in actually a LG tub. I save all my (45ml) of gold solution.
IMG_3112.png
IMG_3112.png (265.7 KiB) Viewed 22903 times
.

Thanks a lot for your guidance (no, really), I appreciated all that you have done for me.

Doug
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Danny Baronian wrote: The biggest problem I see, is dirty glass / containers, causing possible chemical contamination during mixing.

Are you aware of what you're sticking your fingers into? Not all, but many chemicals contain carcinogens. Carcinogen's: think cancer, as well as
heavy metals, not of the rock kind. Those that exposure to has been linked to immune, kidney and neurotic disorders.


Stick by Doug B's advice: use a warm water bath (90 - 100°) to warm the solutions, and 'buy an off the shelf item and get to the fun'.
I guess after watching a couple of videos with Rick Glawson not waring glove, must have given me the wrong signals. Was Ricks death attributed to these chemicals? I'm not trying to fool here, I've been wondering about how he died or from what.
erik winkler
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by erik winkler »

Doogie Howser :D , I never have been fortunate to have met the Glawson god, but I do know one thing.
I love guys like you who come out of the blue and start working and making their asphaltum from a block of asphalt! RESPECT!
Feel like experimenting myself also...
Seemed your glue was rather thick, too little water, how did it chip?

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

If you like that, then you're really going to like it when I start cooking my wife's horses hoof clipping to make hide glue. The farrier is collecting them as we speak. :D I can't say whether the glue was to thick or not, because this was the first time I've tried glue chipping. It did run a bit as I recall, but not too badly. As far as how it chipped........ :?: I think for the most part it did it's job. I had it in a plastic garbage bag with a handfull of descant and place in my sandblast cabinet with a 1000 watt halide lite . The bag sagged and laid down on the glue and stuck there. So it left a bit of a dark bare spot.
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Doug
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Doogie?..I didn't call you "doogie", Mr. Bernhardt called you "Doogie". I called you "Mr. Christie". Maybe you meant to say: "Let me start by saying that of all the people in the world, you Sir, are the only other person that didn't call me Doogie!"

Doogie or Dougie...it matters not, as you will always get a respectful "Mr. Christie" from me.

As far as my tirade, it's not really a tirade, although it can and has been viewed that way. I just like to color up the conversation a tad to keep your attention. Cause when I'm preaching my sermon, I don't want you to fall asleep. Kapeesh!?

As I recall, I don't think Rick Glawson used Selenium in his kits, which may have been a major reason for the lack of stability in his product. Also, I was new to solution gilding back then, so my lack of proper procedures when using his kit may have been another reason for my struggles with his product. Let me back track a bit, and instead of saying "may have been", I'll admit that my lack of procedural and product knowledge was the cause of my initial struggles back then. I will also state that once I had gained more knowledge of the product and procedure, my success rate using the product increased.

Sarah, you also mention that using the your product correctly will leave very little waste gold. But beginners hardly every get that right, it takes them several tries and cries of "I'm almost out of solution" before they do achieve success. I was on my third or fourth kit/batch before the gold was sticking to the glass and not floating on top of the water. Practice Makes Perfect.

Reclaiming gold is not that hard or expensive, the chemicals needed to reclaim your gold from solution cost less than $30.
Gold is selling at around $50 a gram at the moment. How many grams your reclaim depends on how much solution gilding you do. I also reclaim gold from scrapped office door gilding, leftover loose leaf gold, patent gold, jewelry, and computer CPU's. There's plenty of gold around us that can be reclaimed, and not just angel gilding solution.

And Sarah, you raise another valid point when your mention that the stability of your product depends on acidic balanced gold chloride. As you may make it fresh, and ship it fresh, but the end user might not use it for several months after receiving it, by which time the product may have somewhat changed chemically. Both the reductant and the tin deteriorate over time. Not to mention that all or some of the gold may fall out of solution over a given amount of time. So yes, acidic balance is very important for your product.

And if anyone is not going to do a lot of solution gilding or silvering right away, you are wasting your money purchasing the larger volume kits from the other vendors. Sarah sells them in a small enough quantity to minimize any monetary loss from not using the complete or remaining product immediately.

And Mr. Christie, I applaud your courage to go at this and anything else your heart desires.

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Robare M. Novou wrote:Doogie?..I didn't call you "doogie", Mr. Bernhardt called you "Doogie". I called you "Mr. Christie". Maybe you meant to say: "Let me start by saying that of all the people in the world, you Sir, are the only other person that didn't call me Doogie!"

Doogie or Dougie...it matters not, as you will always get a respectful "Mr. Christie" from me.

And Sarah, you raise another valid point when your mention that the stability of your product depends on acidic balanced gold chloride. As you may make it fresh, and ship it fresh, but the end user might not use it for several months after receiving it, by which time the product may have somewhat changed chemically. Both the reductant and the tin deteriorate over time. Not to mention that all or some of the gold may fall out of solution over a given amount of time. So yes, acidic balance is very important for your product.

And if anyone is not going to do a lot of solution gilding or silvering right away, you are wasting your money purchasing the larger volume kits from the other vendors. Sarah sells them in a small enough quantity to minimize any monetary loss from not using the complete or remaining product immediately.

And Mr. Christie, I applaud your courage to go at this and anything else your heart desires.

RMN
Sorry about getting the names @ss backwards, but you've been called worse I'll wager. :D Geeezzz....I bought mine last Jan. I think. No worries though. I'll be using her up in short order and Sarah will be sending out supplies on Mon.
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Well....I painted the clear parts of this panel. I painted the letters white, but it bleeds right through the gilding. I wiped it off and applied a coat of gold. I painted them gain and it bled through again. For a first try, I'm learning a whole bunch. Here's the finished project......
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Sarah King
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Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Sarah King »

The gold layer in the Angel Gilding process is 8 times thinner than gold leaf. The silver you pour over the gold makes it thicker but not by much. As you have discovered, some paints work better with Angel Gilding than others. With the help of Robert Frese and Bruce Buckley - Chicago's premier gold leaf guys - we have put together a comparison chart of Angel Gilding and gold leaf - see http://angelgilding.com/AGAngel_Gilding ... _Leaf.html
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Doug Christie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 am

Re: Angel Gilding.

Post by Doug Christie »

Sarah King wrote:The gold layer in the Angel Gilding process is 8 times thinner than gold leaf. The silver you pour over the gold makes it thicker but not by much. As you have discovered, some paints work better with Angel Gilding than others. With the help of Robert Frese and Bruce Buckley - Chicago's premier gold leaf guys - we have put together a comparison chart of Angel Gilding and gold leaf - see http://angelgilding.com/AGAngel_Gilding ... _Leaf.html
Hi Sarah, I wasn't critiquing the angle gilding. I'm sure there's a way to stop it, maybe a coat of lacquer on top, before painting in the letters. I had been rubbing it pretty good too. I'm sure that had something to do with it. Like I said, I'm moving on to # 2. The glass was free, my labor is free, the experience.......priceless. I just remembered something! (for me that's rare) The forecast is for a month of sun around here, so their climate model reads. I can hear the sound of glass chipping now. :D
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