Projectors

An interactive section of TheLetterheads.com

Topics include: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Off Topic Posts may be deleted at the discretion of the web hosts. ABSOLUTELY NO SHARING OF COPYRIGHTED FONTS, CLIP ART, or VIDEOS!

Please take social chit-chat elsewhere!

Moderators: Danny Baronian, Mike Jackson

Post Reply
Kayla Wade
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 12:03 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Projectors

Post by Kayla Wade » Thu May 16, 2013 12:17 am

Hey everyone, I have a question. So in my endeavors to learn the art of sign painting, I posted an ad on Craigslist looking for a mentor or for a local sign painter willing to give me tips, or point me in the direction of all that. I figured it'd be a long shot, but what the hey, you don't know until you try. Lo and behold I was contacted by a local mural artist willing to help me out. He suggested that one of the essential tools I would need is an overhead projector to project designs to scale on walls.

Is using a projector an insult to the traditional sign painting trade? Cause my gut feeling is that it is. I mean, it does sound like it would make things a heckuva lot easier, but easy doesn't seem to be the point to me. And I've always liked being old school. So what do you guys think?
Full-bodied and easy to drink.

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by Mike Jackson » Thu May 16, 2013 9:02 am

Kayla,
There are various "lines in the sand" in regards to what is actually "old school" or traditional. For example, is premixed paint cheating compared to having to mix our own colors with pigments and binders and dryers? How about using a table saw vs a hand saw? How about using a roller over using a 4" brush? There might have been a time when using an opaque projector was cutting edge over doing gridded enlargements, or even more so when overhead projectors and transparencies replaced them. To be honest, everything above is old school. Many designs now are drawn and digitized on a computer and patterns are made with a plotter. And even more to the point, most billboards are now printed on a vinyl fabric and stretched over a frame and not painted at all.

So, you'd still be well within a "traditional" workflow using an overhead projector. I started with a Rigit-Damar opaque projector and moved to the overhead projector, so you can judge about what decade I started. We also had table saws, rollers, and premixed paint. I used to drive to Shawnee, Oklahoma to cut in billboards for a company with a state contract. I did this a couple of times a week. The owner at the time had worked there a long time, but was the son of the previous owner. He said it took his father a long time to change from painting the panels with rollers instead of the traditional way of painting with a 4" brush.

Oh yes, the name of the billboard company was Switzer Outdoor. While talking with the owner, he mentioned one of his siblings moving to California a long time ago. That person's son ended up in the "Our Gang" shows....Alfalfa Switzer. Even in the shows, they mentioned he was from Oklahoma.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Robare M. Novou
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by Robare M. Novou » Sat May 18, 2013 12:15 am

Wow...Opaque and Overhead Projectors are old school now, along with handmade paper patterns.? How True.! Kayla, use whatever you want to get the job done, it matters not. Hand or Plotter Made Paper Patterns for day jobs...and Projectors for nite jobs. Just make sure you charge enough and get paid in full when you're done. And don't forget to sign your name, along with a phone number (old school) or website (new school).
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com

Dan Seese
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by Dan Seese » Sat May 18, 2013 4:24 pm

Good observations, Mike, with regards to progressive "lines in the sand". How do you define "purist"? How far back does one go? Didn't guys in the past use various innovations to speed-up & aid their execution?

I never received formal training but the man who gave me my initial instruction scoffed at the thought of using an overhead projector. I would watch him sketch out in charcoal on the surface or his pattern paper. He didn't even use an electro-pounce (which had been introduced in 1961) but just pounce wheels. He was, indeed, a master but was always sort of stuck in time.

I've taken more of a middle road - using a lot of technologies but still trying to stay in touch with the hands-on aspect of things. I'm definitely stunted in the hand lettering end of things because of my increased use of the computer, but I'll never abandon the brush.

I'm with Robare's assessment - though more often than not I forget to sign anything.
Dan
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (c. 1340 - 1400)

http://DanSeeseStudios.com
http://www.DanSeeseStudios.com/blog/
http://www.facebook.com/DanSeeseStudios

Kayla Wade
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 12:03 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Projectors

Post by Kayla Wade » Sat May 18, 2013 5:00 pm

Thanks for all the responses! I guess it's true there are potentially many places in which to draw a line. Dan, I like what you said about using technology while also trying to stay in touch with the hands-on. I'm still not sure how I feel about projectors; I think I just need to try different ways and see what works for me. I like the idea of pounce tools, but once upon a time those were newfangled too.
Full-bodied and easy to drink.

Kent Smith
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by Kent Smith » Sat May 18, 2013 8:39 pm

As a matter of historical perspective, the ancient Egyptians were the first to use pounce patterns and I have seen drawings of a pounce wheel used by Michelangelo. Doing your designs in the comfort of your studio and then using any technology to replicate or transfer them to the final surface is still being true to the craft. I am 7th generation and have been lettering signs for 58 years as of June 1. I am a firm believer in utilizing any method to complete the work efficently and in a manner that gives the customer good value for the money they pay.

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by Mike Jackson » Sat May 18, 2013 10:39 pm

Kent, I believe there is a scene in the old Michelangelo movie where they were using a candle or lamp to cast a shadow of a human figure onto a wall. Someone was tracing the outlines of the shadow, and in another scene, you could see them punching holes in some sort of paper or hide. It has been a long time since I watched the movie, but I knew exactly what they were doing. Others here might have remembered seeing it, too.

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Tyler Tim
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:12 am

Re: Projectors

Post by Tyler Tim » Sun May 19, 2013 11:44 am

The Agony and the Ecstasy starring Charlton Heston as Michelangelo

I believe that's the film... I seem to recall his apprentice pouncing holes with an awl.

One thing I'd go with an opaque projector over and overhead any day of the week.
I've used opaque projectors for years... quick way to take a sketch and transfer to scale on large work. Just rough out and cut in.
Sure I paint thing for my amusement and then offer them for sale. A brushslinger could whither en die from lack of creativity in this plastic town my horse threw a shoe in. :shock:

Aaron Repath
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: Projectors

Post by Aaron Repath » Sun May 19, 2013 12:11 pm

As for whether on not using projectors is OK - I have been building ads for the last 8 years, and the clients care about the final result, not how I got it done. If you can use something like that effectively and efficiently and get the desired result, why not?

Kayla Wade
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 12:03 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Projectors

Post by Kayla Wade » Sun May 19, 2013 12:49 pm

Aaron Repath wrote:As for whether on not using projectors is OK - I have been building ads for the last 8 years, and the clients care about the final result, not how I got it done. If you can use something like that effectively and efficiently and get the desired result, why not?
I guess I'm just worried about "being true to the craft," but I'm realizing that "the craft" is about painting good signs and satisfying clients. Would you all agree? I just don't want some old pro to take a look at my work someday and call me a hack because I didn't scale up a design by the grease of my elbows. :)
Full-bodied and easy to drink.

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Projectors

Post by erik winkler » Sun May 19, 2013 2:24 pm

My two cents:
Vermeer and Goltzius (old Dutch masters) used projectors.
In those times they were named 'camera obscura'.
They were not happy to tell the world that they used this instrument, due not being a pure artist in the artistic theory.
But their priority was to capture life in all its natural facets: they succeeded and after all these centuries they are still admired for their work.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests