Dublin signwriters short film

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Terry Colley
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Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Terry Colley » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:59 pm

This is a short film about Dubilin signwriters, enjoy
Vimeo.com/81921161
Called gentlemen of letters
Terry Colley
Stockport, England
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Danny Baronian
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Danny Baronian » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:33 pm

Thanks Terry, very nice.

Who/what is the one-name guy that's lit like a wanted poster? :-)

Signwriters in your part of the world have an abundant, rich history of the craft.

Danny
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Terry Colley
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Terry Colley » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:03 pm

Danny
He is Shay D. Meser he is only allowed to paint shadows!
Terry Colley
Stockport, England
Signwriter/maker

pat mackle
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by pat mackle » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:30 pm

I enjoyed watching your film. I have an observation at 00:57 that you may be able to explain or describe. In that film frame a partial bit of the "E" shows in the upper right of the frame but it evokes a question for me. It depicts the window being lettered from the outside, but it also appears that the letters are also present on the inside(from the reflected glare and raised texture in the black paint). Was this sign lettered on both sides of the window? Or over an older existing internal sign that would soon be removed?
Here in the states I seem to find that very old window signs were painted on the outside of the stores, while most of the newer ones are painted on the inside(maybe to insure a longer life due to the shorter durability of today's low VOC and lead free paints). I'm sure it is faster to paint a sign as right reading from the outside, than it is to paint in reverse from the inside. But on the outside it must endure regular cleaning and squeegee wear from the window cleaning service.

Terry Colley
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Terry Colley » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi Pat
That was odd to me bar the odd seasonal window splash I have only ever worked in reverse from the inside, Dublin is well worth a visit for any glass
man lots of stuff off the tourist tracks
Terry Colley
Stockport, England
Signwriter/maker

Tyler Tim
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Tyler Tim » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:27 pm

8) Enjoyed it... Thanks
Sure I paint thing for my amusement and then offer them for sale. A brushslinger could whither en die from lack of creativity in this plastic town my horse threw a shoe in. :shock:

Andrew Lawrence
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Andrew Lawrence » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:11 pm

E. C. Mathews talks about painting signs from the outside of the window in one of his books. I think it was a lot more common back then in the pre-war era.

pat mackle
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by pat mackle » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:45 am

When I visited Georgetown in Colorado (where they filmed part of Every Which Way But Loose, starring Clint Eastwood)
some of the old store fronts still had glass windows that dated back to the town's active mining days.
Being an old glass guy, I don't just look at glass, I LOOK at glass.
While pressing my nose to some of those old windows, I discovered that by looking at several old store windows at an extremely low angle with the sky in reflection, that the windows showed a distinct history of the businesses that had once occupied these stores. What had caused these faintly ghosted registers of previous tenants to be permanently sand etched into these windows? I soon found the answer upon finding that several early windows still had hand painted letters on the outside of the store's window. This brushed on paint had acted as a form of sand blast resist, preserving and protecting the underlying glass from flying bits of sand and debris when winds would kick up through the many years. You could actually judge an earlier tenant from a later one by the amount of pecking within the letter strokes as they were guarded against the wind driven erosion through the years.
http://www.decoglasspro.com

Dan Seese
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Dan Seese » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:39 pm

Well, here's a slight diversion from the topic about the film (which, proud of my Irish heritage, I had particular pleasure watching) but I'm picking up on Pat's comment about the exterior lettering on windows in Georgetown.

A couple of years ago my wife and I were visiting Georgetown. We stopped into a really cool old grocery store with an ancient closed hardware store adjacent to it. (Both had wooden floors, bins - a bona fide general store/hardware store.) I had been admiring the window signs since they'd clearly been done by a journeyman sign painter who understood layout and letter construction & had a nice clean flair. When we got to the counter I asked the lady if she knew who did the signs. She said it had been done years ago by her former brother-in-law. I asked his name and when she replied "Mark Oatis", Chris turned to the guy in line behind us and said, "You'd better go ahead - we're going to be here a while."

We had a delightful conversation with Wendy as she gave us the family history (the building has been theirs since around the turn of the last century I believe) and she let us wander around the old hardware store which was not open to the public.
Well, that leads me to this particular window which was, as Pat said, sandblasted over time. I'll attach a photo of the storefront and then a closeup of the window, showing how there were 2 previous renditions ghosted onto the glass by the high winds that come through town. Mark's work still looks great after probably about 30 years!
Attachments
Kneisel & Anderson.jpg
Grocery storefront
Kneisel & Anderson.jpg (240.61 KiB) Viewed 7685 times
Meats & Groceries.jpg
Meats & Groceries window with ghosted sandblasting
Meats & Groceries.jpg (190.2 KiB) Viewed 7654 times
Dan
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (c. 1340 - 1400)

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erik winkler
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by erik winkler » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:17 pm

I asked his name and when she replied "Mark Oatis", Chris turned to the guy in line behind us and said, "You'd better go ahead - we're going to be here a while."
Fantastic!
Could have been said to the people in mine line haha.
30 years, amazing...
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
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David Slade
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by David Slade » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:39 pm

Wonderful!!! Thank you Terry!

Mr. Freeney's family has a lot of his photos on the Gentleman of Letters photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gentlemanofletters/

Terry Colley
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Terry Colley » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:01 pm

David that link is fantastic, a mans life work , everyone else take a look !
Terry Colley
Stockport, England
Signwriter/maker

bob gamache
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by bob gamache » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:51 pm

Thank you Terry for sharing the film....awesome! I was in Dublin last month and really appreciated the pride in heritage there!
Also the abundant turn of the century hand gilded mirrors in the pubs were outstanding.
Bob Gamache

erik winkler
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by erik winkler » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:35 am

Terry Colley wrote:David that link is fantastic, a mans life work , everyone else take a look !
I did! and made me very humble...
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Ingrid Mager
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Ingrid Mager » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:03 am

Georgetown is terribly, terribly, windy. . . and gravelly - I lived there from 2010 - 2012.

In fact, I used to get my supplies at the "not open to the public" part of Kneissle and Anderson. The store itself was basically left untouched, but mixed in there, they also kept new supplies which were made available to local residents. You had to take an escort with you to select what you wanted to buy! So cool. . . But I digress. . .

I wonder how much this "paint as resist effect" can be seen in other areas where it doesn't get extreme winds like Georgetown does.(?)
Very cool pictures - Thanks!
~Inga

erik winkler
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by erik winkler » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:33 am

Here in the Netherlands (Amsterdam) they used to paint on the outside as well.
After some 60plus years they still look pretty good.
Ofcourse they used leadbased white paints wich eats into the glass.
Here some samples:
Image
Last edited by erik winkler on Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Lee Littlewood
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Re: Dublin signwriters short film

Post by Lee Littlewood » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Pat Mackle said,
"Here in the states I seem to find that very old window signs were painted on the outside of the stores, while most of the newer ones are painted on the inside (maybe to insure a longer life due to the shorter durability of today's low VOC and lead free paints). I'm sure it is faster to paint a sign as right reading from the outside, than it is to paint in reverse from the inside. But on the outside it must endure regular cleaning and squeegee wear from the window cleaning service."

I'm not so sure; how much are we just seeing the survivors, and if on the outside noticing it more than if on the inside? Plus there may be regional differences.
Here in Portland Ore. I was taught to work on the inside, and most window work was/is on the insides, but for 2 exceptions. One is window splashes, which we don't get too much because of the 9 months of rain. The other is the "dynamite job" or "snapper special", which is done with paint or varnish on the outside, then rubbed over with aluminum powder, then shaded, outlined, what-have-you. Matthews gives some nice examples, albeit in black & white. And THIS technique, while fast and often done as a cheap job, can last for a long long time. I have seen quite a few examples, here and in other locations, where the shading was weathered away but the lettering was still good - grey color, not shiny anymore, but still solid. I assume it lasts because the aluminum reflects the sun's heat and especially the ultra violet rays, so the underlying paint doesn't get degraded.
......................
I always wondered about the "shadow" that a sign will leave on glass after the lettering has been taken off. "Sandblasting' seems as good an explanation as any.
In a similar vein, have you noticed on old wood signs how the background is eaten away, while the lettering is in better shape - sometimes the lettering is even raised above the background enough to feel with a fingernail? I'm thinking especially of signs in the country, or on Forest Service trails; and on wooden boards, not plywood. My best guess is that it is from paper wasps digging little bits of wood to use in making their nests - it seems unlikely, but I have seen them doing it.

Sandblasting, killer wasps - it's a wonder that anything remains from The Old Ones.
where am i? Now, when i need me...

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