Posted by cam bortz on January 13, 2004
Robare M. NovouI've been commisioned to do a prismatic-gold leaf logo on two windows in Manhattan, (for a very wealthy and extremely picky client), and I'm wondering about the pros/cons of using a mask vs a screen to apply the outlines. Also, does anyone have a favorite black mix for outlining on glass? Thanks in advance.
Mike Jackson - One ShotI have two large gilded widows for my storefront. I used masking and oneshot black enamel for the outlines. Its been on for more than two years...heat, frost, cold, moisture, you name it...that one shot has hung on very well. Heck...I havent even varnished it yet.
I hear all the talk about Ricks back up and sericol...It's good stuff for backing up, but until this one shot lets me down for outlines,Im stickin with it. I've used oneshot exclusively for outlines on over 50 gilded windows and doors over the years. And not one failure. For backing up the gold I use the sericol or ricks backup black or ocher.
My technique is that when using a mask...I lay down one coat of oneshot black...let it tack up...and then apply a second coat of one shot black. I then peel off the mask before the paint drys, thus preventing any sharp and jaggy edges. When dry all my outlines have nice smooth rolled edges. Gilding is snap.
The other day I did a piece of glass and wasn't able to peel the mask off until the paint was almost dry...I ended up with sharp jagged edges.
Next time when Jeff Lang calls...I'll just let it ring.
I did that silk screening one time in a lawyers office...spilled screen ink on the drop cloth...but then someone stepped in it and tracked it onto the new carpet.
RMN
Robare M. Novou - One ShotRobare,
I like One Shot black for most things. I am just curious about a few issues if used as the outline for a gold job.
#1: Are you putting down the black outline, then filling later with one or two tones of gold? Water gilding any parts of the centers?
#2: If water gilding the letters, it is difficult to keep some of the leaf sheets from overlapping out over the outline and on to the clear glass. If so, does the One Shot black allow you to scrub it well enough to remove the gold on the clear glass?
#3: When using a computer cut mask, do you have any problems with glue residue on the glass from removing either the mask or from the transfer masking?
Mike Jackson - Prussian Blue#1) Yes, Im filling in the centers with water and oil size after letting the oneshot dry, using a variety of gold and silver leaf, also used clear and tinted damar varnish for some of the effects.
#2) Yes, the well built-up and well rounded and dryed outlines allow me to clean up the excess gold and silver. Even with hard scrubbing. I've noticed that its an art to be able to scrub off the excess. I've seen some gilders scrub off the outlines because they dont have the "touch". Then again their outlines were not as thick as mine, when I say thick, Im refering to how much paint I have laid down and not how wide my outlines are. My outlines are usually 1/8 to 1/4" wide.
I use those round soft cosmetic sponges, (the ones that look like they were cut out with cookie cutter),with some bon-ami.
#3) Yes, I do notice some residue left from the mask. I make it a point to clean the glass after the outlines have dryed thus removing any residue and finger prints. I use a variety of cleaners, depending on how successful they work, the ones I use are, soap and water, rubbing alcohol, mineral spirits.
RMN
One of the standard ways of doing a gold job was to do the gold lettering first (whether a single burnished letter or two toned letter), then outline it with black or dark blue. Since black was designed to be as opaque as possible, many used Prussian Blue oil paints mixed with quick drying varnishes. The advantage of Prussian Blue was it was slightly transparent, allowing you to see how thick you were outlining, right? Just a good layer was needed. When the blue was almost dry, they would tamp across the back with a black charcoal pounce bag. It would stick to the tacky blue, making it dark and opaque.
With all the outline features of today's computer generated masking, you can leave the stencil on the glass long enough to do all the outlines and center work, allowing for the final outline/back up, and even allowing for an additional clear varnish back-up if desired. The biggest issue with all this is the potential ridge along the edge resulting from the mask. The other issue is timing. If you leave the mask on too long, it introduces the possibility of tearing the paint when removing the mask.
Mike Jackson
Rick Sacks - Prussian Blue
Mike Jackson - Prussian BluePrussian Blue was the favorite at the shop where I apprenticed. It is a very rich color and if you don't do the charcoal dusting the blue looks black from some angles and blue from others making as magical as the gold in its transitional effects. It also seemed to be a stable color, lasting many moons in the sunlight.
Rick,
When I was growing up, The First National Bank of Moore, Okla. had two wonderfully done door signs. On the outside edges of the black panels, there was a transparent blue line, maybe 1/8" or less around it. There was not a brush stroke in the blue and it always baffled me what it was or how it was applied. Well, I later found out they were done by Steven Parrish from Nebraska. When I quizzed him about those outlines, he said "Oh yes, they were hand painted". When I asked him how he did that, he just gave me that twinkle in his eye and a grin, indicating there was no magic, just years of experience which I apparently lacked. This pair of doors were done on the inside, but executed in such a way you could see a message on both sides, so the transparent blue became part of the design inside and out.
Unfortunately, the First National Bank now has a new name. The old signs were scraped off.
Fortunately, Darla and I were able to get his sales samples from his estate and I have a few examples of the signs. I hope to get good photos of them someday soon.
Mike Jackson
Tony Segale
Cam,
Mike JacksonI'm guessing there must be a lot of outlines.
If there aren't to many, why not impress the "big buck client" with something they might appreciate, an "Old Pro" who knows how to hand letter those outlines. If I mark it up well, I find it very relaxing and somewhat therapeutic to swing the brush in reverse on glass while others watch in awe. A good 30 minutes of quiet meditation beforehand will cure any jitters.
Oh yeah, usually they walk away seeing the time and patience it takes to create a work of gilded art, we know they don't have the patience.
Tony
Cam BortzCam,
I know people use masks for creating their outlines, but I never liked the raised edges resulting from the mask. That makes everything else harder. Larry Whan has found some sort of paint (commerically available and manufactured in the US) which he likes for this step. He wouldn't tell me because he was going to market it as a special product. That was about six months ago, so maybe he changed his mind.
Good luck,
Mike Jackson
Danny BaronianThanks, Mike. I'd pretty much made up my mind to screen the outlines for those reasons among others. We'll be doing several of these in-house to work out the bugs before we go on site. The guy who hired us is has indicated a strong possibility that the client - whose initials are DT - will be there to watch and ask questions while in progress. Nervous? Nahh...........
Well, since your working for DT out of Manhattan, make sure you quadruple your rate.
I'd agree with Mike. I have a glass sample on my desk that we used a mask for a similar situation. It looks nice, and is much easier, but the screened image is superior .
The only suggestions I'd have would be to make extra screens and include in your price to have an extra man on the job. When vertical screen printing on site you could always use an extra set of hands.With people like 'DT' they're always impressed by those with 'assistants'.
Don't forget to take plenty of drop cloth's. You don't want to stain the 1000 dollar a yard carpet, or Italian marble. Check your insurance too. For 100 - 200 bucks, you can add a rider that adds 1-5 million onto your existing policy. That's cheap insurance in the event you need it. You maybe already know this, but hey, it's free.
As far as a black back up use Rick's black, or check the supply list for Sericol, which is what Rick used, black, FDE (fast drying enamel). If there's something better, we'd all like to know. Sericol is available through screen printing suppliers. Here's the supply site: http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm
Hope this helps,
Danny
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads