Surface Gild Sequence

[Site Man]

OLD FORUM POSTS

Posted by Jon Harl on February 25, 2004

I went with Doug Bernhardt's suggestion for a natural finish for mahogany. I bought a quart each of Sikkens Cetol-1 in mahogany and Sikkens TGL gloss clear. I'm going to gild the letters. I know I shouldn't put the mahogany color over the gold, but would you put the clear over the gold? Or, would you finish the sign with the cetol and clear, the letters too, then gild over the top of the clear?

Jeffrey P. Lang

John,
I was taught to never put anything on top of gold leaf unless it was absolutely necessary. For example, on a vehicle, where the gold would be subject to repeated scrubbing & would need the protection. The gold leaf will last a very long time if applied properly. I like to use LeFrancs 12 hr size & have great success with the life of the gild. I was told by somebody, but can't remember who, that the Statue of Liberty's torch has only been gilded three times in it's lifetime.
I'd gild over the clear, after it had sufficient time to dry, & I use rouge on the background surface before applying the size to prevent the excess gold from sticking.
Good luck,
Jeff

Mike Jackson

Hi Jon,
I was hoping someone else would respond to this one, but I guess you are waiting for an answer. I'd gild over the final finishes.

Without attempting to lecture anyone, I'd still say you are taking a chance on this project if you haven't tested the vanishes on your own pieces in your own area. I hope it works out well for you. Keep us posted in about a year!

Good luck,
Mike Jackson

John Harl - Testing

Mike I don't think you're lecturing, in fact your advice is well taken. I've been thinking of carving signs as my primary business and have been practicing for about 18 months. I'm ready to do some complete pieces (samples) and use various finishes to see how it goes. Even though I went to LA Trade Tech and have been lettering for 20 years I want to do this business venture right. I agree with you about not practicing on the customer's job. I don't take jobs that I've never done before and then figure out how to do after I get the deposit. I always have a proven system before I sell the job. I don't like surprises and signs coming back with finish failure.

Mike Jackson - Testing

Hi Jon,
I probably read it wrong, but somehow got the impression the varnish question was for a real job you were getting close to completing. If you are making some test panels, go ahead and try gilding over the varnish on one or two and also try varnishing over the gold. You will see a big difference in the final gold finish, and if left outside, you will probably see a breakdown in the varnish over the gold.

Jon, what was the name of that Santa Monica bookstore we always went to during a conclave? For anyone interested (Robare?), that was one of the places that had an original Jone's Grammar of Ornament. That was a long time ago, but I did get to look at it. It might be sold by now, but it's a lead none the less.

Good luck on the carving venture!
Mike

John Harl - Bookstore

I was thinking that the clear over the gild would break down but I give it a try and report back. As well as Sikkens I'm going to try spraying automotive clear (probably PPG).

As for the bookstore it's called Hennessey and Ingalls. They've got a cool web site with an online catalog. I hope I'm not feeding the tiger by telling you about this Mike. I don't want to get in trouble with Darla.

Have Fun,
Jon

Hennessey and Ingalls
http://www.hennesseyingalls.com/

Mike Jackson

Hi Jon,
Thanks for the link. I searched through their search engine and the Jones book did not come up. They must have sold it some time in the past 10 years. Yep, that's the place that took a lot of my money each year. That place is awsome! They specialize in Art and Architecture including related fields, so all those books you see in their picture have "potential".

Darla is safe for now. I spent too much money last month on the old books.

Mike

http://www.hennesseyingalls.com/

Robare M. Novou

Soooo Many Books...so little time(and money).

If I dont get the book now...I'll get it later.

The bus comes by here every 15 minutes...if I miss it, I'll just catch the next one.

But thanks for the lead....As a side note,I found out that the Rawson and Evans Exhibit at the Worlds Columbian Exposition of 1893 was in the "Manufactures Building and Liberal Arts Building", according to this book..."Official Catalogue of Exhibits" Worlds Columbian Expo. They were in "Group 95" titled "Stained Glass in Decoration" of which thier classification # was "596" titled "Civic and Domestic Stained Glass Work, panels, windows, etc. Of which there were about 11 companies exhibiting thier own stained glass windows and ornamented glass. R&E was proably the only one there with the chipped and silvered glass signs.
As most of the other exhibitors were stained glass concerns.

The picture of thier display at the Exposition in the R&E catalog (page 36) shows a number(#94)on a pole on the left side of the image..that number is a group #. Group #94 was the glass and glass ware display area....R&E was in area #95 right next to or in the same display area...its hard to tell from this info exactly where, just generally.
I suppose that pole #95 was cropped out of the picture or never made it into the picture to begin with. But with that number 94, its easier to place and confirm thier location at the Exposition.

I've provided this info as a recent finding in my search for more on R&E. And hopefully, someone reading this will have additional knowledge to add to this or be able to use it in locating more on the subject of R&E.


RMN