Posted by Larry White on May 09, 2003
Raymond ChapmanHey, would any of you seasoned reverse glass guys care to share your pricing stratgies with the rest of us?
Thanks, LW
Jeffrey P. LangA quote from the late Stephen Parrish: "If you quote a price and the customer doesn't blink, it wasn't high enough".
Also, from Dusty Yaxley: Quote your price and then keep your mouth shut. The first person who speaks is the loser. (I think what Dusty was saying is that you don't have to explain your price.) I think Dusty said that...if he didn't, he should have.
D. BernhardtThat quote from Steven Parrish reminded me of the theory Peter McCullen employs:
"I believe the customer should feel some pain in handing over the money, It helps them value what you have done for them."
Jeff
Vance GalliherI gotta go with most others here...time and materials. If the job is complex and needs screen work also needs to include producing film work etc etc and time to scoot arround town getting things like that. I try to charge for everything but i never seem to quite. If you,re not careful with the art pieces it would be easy to lose yer shirt. I heard the expression some time ago there,s time and then there's gold leaf time!
Larry, my prices start at $600.00 to 1200.00 per square foot for glass/chipped/gilded/and who knows what (and my work.. hahaha.. don't hold a candle to the names we see here, yours included)...i'm not all that busy ......... but when i work i love it !!
......a very interesting question though........i always assume that all you folks that do this incredible work must be very rich.....i know it's not all that simple but, how could not be ?......vance
Rick Sacks
Let's talk about the stuff we get calls to do on a more regular basis. I got a call Friday to gild a lawyer's name and attorney at law under it. He'll probably want a black shade and burnished egyptian letters. What happens when the guy next door calls and wants the same thing, only he has a three letter name? Or one that really happened to me was HOOVER BLOOMINGTON BROOM COMPANY? I was learning gold work and we did those doors without patterns and that name came up.
Vance Galliher
Rick Sackshi rick, i think for any name/title glass gold work outside of shop should have a minimum charge of $500.......design/getting set to go/ going/setting up/ prep/laying leaf/outline/shadow(screening or by hand)/colors(?)/backing up/cleaning up,etc.......all these steps take me time and focus, and doing any glass seems to always require a return trip for edge varnish.......plus how many others do this type of work in my town, but even if there many i won't lower the price.......just my thought...vance
Vance GalliherVance, with a $500 minimum, I'd see all the office doors done in signgold. There are many of these jobs that can be gilded after cleaning in just over half an hour, and backed up in that amount of time. Cleaned and varnished in less than an hour. I can do these easily for $300 and hope the craft of simple gold jobs that are not ornate art peices can continue.
Rick Sacks.....and also pricing by the inch just seems out of date to me and doesn't reflect the true value of gold work....it's a noble metal and should render a noble price........vance
Billy BobOK, what about repairs. The nice gold job that requires a damaged letter or a few chips or scrapes repaired? How about the re-varnishes? often the work involved in preserving a job is far more time consuming. Ever need to take the blade and scrape back old varnish jobs so that a decent one can be applied? How do you charge for that?
Rick SacksCharge by the hour and your as is covered regardless. I do alot of door transom address numbers (w.usually four numerals), and I charge $250 for 3" to 3 1/2" tall burnished 23k w. a black outline. They take about four hours to do.I may up the price a little soon. I always try to get close to $60 or $70 per hour for any sign work, including GL on glass.
I learned to price gold work by the upright inch. If you have three inch letters then each letter is three inches.We'd add 20% for an outline and that again for a shade. 50% for a two tone single gild and more for a double gild. As far as panels and ribbons and decorative backgrounds, you probably have some intuitive sense with it being connected to the job.
It's been a while since I sold a gold job, but I think that we got over $12 an inch.
How are others pricing gold?
Mike Jackson
Rick mentioned pricing by the inch, but that would have been for something like "Strong & Matthews, Attorneys at Law" on a door. The variable would have been the complexity of the letterstyles used, whether it had a matte center, and outlines or outlines/shade. Then, of course, a 1" roman line of text is much harder to produce than the same line at 3" despite using a little more gold.
The only way I know to figure a gold job is to estimate how long it will take and how much it will cost, then allow for a number of trips to the job and multiply in the shop rate. A glass job done in the shop would be much less than one that had to be done on location in many cases.
I am looking forward to hearing the approaches of others.
Mike Jackson
Bruce Jackson
I use this kind of method too. I sometimes just try to picture the end result in my mind and imagine how long I've been working on it.
It might seem a bit loose but I find that with a little calm imagination I'm pretty accurate at guessing how long it will take.
I'll often justify the guess by adding up each step, 1 hour for pattern, 2 for outlines, 2 for gilding, 1 to patch up, etc. It doesn't usually result in a more accurate estimate but sometimes breaking it down will help me forsee a time-consuming step that I might mave not have anticipated. The other benefit is it helps confirm how I'm going to go about the job.
Another thing I do as a confirmation. I'll think about other jobs I've that are similar in scope, and remember what I charged and whether that price was about right or too low.
I don't usually charge extra for gold or materials. On smallish jobs I'll just accept it as part of my standard expenses, which will be covered in the total price by my hourly rate. If I'm going to go through more than a book of gold, I'll add it on. I don't worry too much about the exact amounts I'll use. Just an estimate from the size of the job. Their really paying for my time more than anything.
On architectural things like backsplashes or tabletops, I price by the square metre. Starting at $800 AUD (if not using gold) going up to about $3000 AUD depending on design complexity and materials used.
It takes about 6 books of gold to cover a square metre.
1 book covers 1.7 square feet.
Harry Malicoat
Tony SegaleI learned to price commercial gold jobs by the upright inch too, but it depends if you are trying to figure pricing on an office window or door, etc. or if you are trying to attach a price to the "fine art signage artpieces" we love to do to imress ourselves and each other at the meets like the conclave. Those pieces have to be priced as an artpiece, taking into account not only time for production of the piece, but as a representation of the artist as one of few who can create such a work. These pieces should be developing a gallery value far beyond their face value as signage.
I price by time and materials plus...
Figure my material costs and add 70%, sometimes I add 100% for the gold, I like to have extra for my own projects, then I figure the time it takes. After totalling the two together, I add 10% for error and another 10% for profit. Some think I'm to expensive, I like that. In some cases when I show different options, I mark up more, after this is an advertisement and compare to other forms of advertising, the customer is getting quite a bargain.
As an art piece, I believe you have room for a higher mark up, who else can produce your artisitc vision?
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads