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Silvering glass to the edge of lettering?

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Ron Berlier
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:27 am

Silvering glass to the edge of lettering?

Post by Ron Berlier »

Hello all,

Has anyone tried, or had success with, lettering on glass first and then going through the silvering process so that the result is silver right next to the lettering/design work? In other words, there is no visable break between the silvered glass and the lettering?

What problems, if any, occurred during silvering with the edge lettering/design work?

Thanks for the input.

Ron
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Silvering over inscriptions...

Post by Larry White »

Hi Ron-
Rick had instructed me that it is possible to silver over previously applied inscriptions by outlining them first with asphaltum, then fill in the entire outline with asphaltum, then silver over the whole thing. The silver will deposit right over the asphaltum. This method however, gives you a black outline to your inscription (you may not want that). I have yet to try this as I seem to always plan my artwork execution to do the silvering first, that is, after any surface alteration. It probably would be better to do the inscription first, then silver the background, but I think I'd be a bit hesitant on submersing someting I had a lot of time in without doing a test piece first.
Larry White
That's enough for now... it's gettin' late
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Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Ron,
I think I understand your question...at least the end product. If you silvered the glass first, then backed up the silver with a screen that covers all the silvered parts (background) leaving the lettering and ornamentation not screened....then you can use the silver strip to remove the exposed areas (letters and ornaments). From there, you just fill in the open letters and ornaments with a big brush.

This is actually very easy. The silvering becomes your background AND your mask for the final lettering. You just have to plan the project differently than most people do when they think about this process.

IF you want to screen and ornament your design first, then you might need to read Pat Mackle's response in the "Screen Printing Inks for Glass Post from a week or two ago.
The most durable way to print glass is to screen print a colored vitreous glass powder mixed into an essentual oil or water friendly medium and fuse it in a kiln.
The next most durable would be an epoxy or UV based ink
like the type used in screen printing or pad printing glass applications. You can see some of the most cutting edge non vitreous products available today if you look closely at current wine and liquor bottles.
Using only an air dryed oil base enamel won't last past the first abrasion or trip to the dishwasher. Go to these sites.
www.unionink.com and www.decotechgroup.com
Contact them about your glass printing needs.
Pat
This ink would hold up to full emmersion under the silvering process.

Mike
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Catharine C. Kennedy
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Location: Chatham Center, NY

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy »

What do you use as a screen? If you use paint mask, wouldn't it pull the silvering up?
Catharine C. Kennedy
Chatham Center, NY
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

I should have said "silk screen". It will not harm the glass during a screen "pull". You can see me screening on the recent gold leaf piece in SignCraft. No mask was used on the entire sign...just two screens.

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
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Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Ron,
Years ago before i knew any better I painted a peice of art on glass and then took it to be mirrored.They told me they could'nt promise it would work but it did.So I know that it works.hope that helps.

Roderick
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Roderick,
It CAN work, but it is a gamble. The gamble is if all the graphics, or even part of the graphics come off during silvering, is it worth the risk? The glass piece we did for the Atkinson Colorized plates was silvered after the artwork, but I had to rework a couple of parts twice before I got it to hold. It took quite a thick layer of paint and any thin areas lifted.

Here's the problem...or problems:
After painting the necessary areas, you will probably have oily fingerprints all over the open areas. You need to scrub the glass to clean it well, followed by a bath of distilled water. After that, you spray a generous layer or bath of tin solution, followed by a very generous rinsing of distilled water again. Finally, the two parts of the silver are either poured on the flat glass or sprayed with an atomizer gun with another heavy supply of silver solution. Finally, the silver is rinsed again with distilled water. If your paint, varnish, gold, and back up can stand all that water, you might get away with a good silver job.

Again, there is not much of a substitute for making all your own mistakes--other than listening to people who have tried various steps and processes and have learned the safer methods. Feel free to do all your own tests. Doing a process contrary to suggestions by people who have gone before you leaves you open to hearing "we told you so" when or if it fails. I would never try it again without the special glass inks Pat Mackle suggested.

Lastly, besides the fact you are working "in reverse" on the glass, I suggest the best way to work with silver is to "think backwards". Put your background or silvered areas in first, remove the unwanted silver areas, and then fill in with your colors and designs in the open areas.

If you do not have screen printing skills or equipment, I believe it IS possible to clean the glass, apply GerberMask or something similar to areas you need to stay clear, burnish the mask down, clean the glass, silver the glass including over the masking, back up the open areas, and then peel the letters or masked areas to reveal the clear glass in those areas again.

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

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Catharine C. Kennedy
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Location: Chatham Center, NY

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy »

I really glad to hear that a mask can be used- I'm up to my eyeballs in new techniques at the moment and don't have the time just yet to learn silk screening on top of everything else. But I'm sure that's coming!
Catharine C. Kennedy
Chatham Center, NY
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Dave Smith, in England, told me how he was masking areas prior to silvering, so I am quite sure it can be done. With that said, I think it would take quite a few test pieces before I committed a big job to it. He uses a back up paint available in England and to my knowledge it is not available here. He rolls it on the entire glass with a couple of coats and lets it dry, then peels the stencil out. The catch is finding a back up paint that stays flexible, at least long enough to let you peel the stencil without tearing.

Also, this process is possible to do with chipped glass, but to do it without a lot of bleed unders, you would need a thin "glow line" between the final letter or outline and the chipped areas. This is exactly opposite of the original question in this thread. Screen printing a back up over chipped areas will never cover all the recessed chipped glass. After doing the screening, you still have to manually fill in the open spots. That usually goes fast.

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Silvering over Masking...

Post by Larry White »

I used the process of masking off the areas I wanted to remain clear prior to silvering on the La Belle sign I created. It worked fine. This was the first time I had ever tried it. It definately saved me a lot of time as I am not a screen printer. I would've had to outline it all by hand. I backed it up with asphaltum which renders a very clean line when the mask is removed. You can see the process/results on the La Belle sign thread on this forum.
Larry White
That's enough for now... it's gettin' late
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Jeff Umsted
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:55 pm
Location: Lapeer Mi.

check it out

Post by Jeff Umsted »

Hey Ron,

Here is a link to some instructions that may help you out! Hope it helps you. :P

http://www.goldreverre.com/technique/mirrors.html

Jeff
Jeff Umsted
Lapeer, Michigan
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