Cigar Store Mirror - Finished

[Rob Schramm]

Well after seeing Dave's post and master work I am a little timid about showing my achievement for the day which was finishing the project I was working on. I see I have a ton to learn but I sure love playing!

here it is....

[Roderick Treece]

Hi Rob,
Are the 2nd & 3rd photos defferent from the 1st.It looks like the the back ground is clear in those and the 1st is mirrored. The shadows of the lettering is what confusing me.I all so see some small bits of what appear to be mirroring around the edges of some of the letters and designs that look nice.
I like the simplisity of your.What size is it?

It is amazing how many versions of this sign I've seen. Larry White has the largest one I know of. Maybe he'll post a photo of it.

Thanks Rob

[Rob Schramm]

Roderick,

I would love to know what all of you guys do but I have my own way of making things look different. I go for vintage instead of new, I like it when things give the illusion of falling apart and revealing another backing which to me looks real! When I am mirroring I arrest certain areas of the mirror with Liver and throw stuff like witing, rottenstone, cirium and so on into the wet silvering about the 1 minute mark and then for the authentic look I spray the back of the new silver with copper (real metal finish) spray paint and then back it in 1shot black. What happens is anything raw gets copper tones to it as does the areas that I arrested early gets a coppery silver tone and the pitting look crazy old! I also like to chip off areas of the paint using tape applying and then pulling off which then get a coppery black tone. I like it when I see an antique mercury glass mirror taking as many pics as I can get and then figuring out how to make a new piece of glass to get that same look.

[Rob Schramm]

By the way the things that look goofy are an illusion as I use the ceiling (which is white) and the flash of the camera toss shadows which make it look that way. I hate trying to take pics of mirrors but I love to do them!

[Roderick Treece]

Rob,
The shadows were throwing me off. They made it look like the background is clear.

I find it interesting you use the word "Vintage". I have clients that want brand new Vintage and others that want antiqued Vintage.
The whole antique mirroring thing for me started when I had chipped "Chapman and Smith Co signs and wanted to silver them. I bought the stuff and tried and tried and tried and did get very good results. I left one in the corner of the shop.The other I had silvered locally.It came out perfect.
A while later someone saw the one I concidered to be bad and asked how old it was,that it looked like an antique. The mirror was dark and blotchy. I was going for new bright mirroring. I looked at it again and realized they were right.It did look very old.I finished outlining the lettering and framed it. At the next conclave I went to there wasn't much room to hang anything so I just left in the front room and went inside. Within an hour somebody came in the back asking who's old Rawson & Evans was in the front room.I had no idea they were talking about that piece.
After that I shared the antique mirroring and framing with everyone in the group. They have taken it in some really cool directions. It's nice to see your work added into the mix.

In regard to backing the silver with metallic paint , I would be careful with that one. Tests I've done show that the metallics in paint will tarnish silver.One shot will also tarnish silver. I always put a bearer coat between the silver and metallic paint.

Thanks for the post

Roderick

[Rob Schramm]

Hmmm... Tarnishing antiqued mirror glass, that might be ok! I love it when things tarnish. I have always backed my stuff without a barrier coat and I have about 200 samples sitting in this house and there is some from as long ago as 4 years and nothing happened so far but there is always room for hope!

I really love your stuff as I have see it before and it is top notch. Sarah King is going to show me how to glue chip this week and I am very excited to get that going. Sarah and Mike told me that they are just about ready to come out with their spray silver - I'm ready!

[Roderick Treece]

The hard part is to know what does what and have control over it. I have been told by some people that over time antique mirror went way to far and didn't look good. I have seen it and that's ok if your doing rustic but when I do new mirroring it has to stay new looking. I think it's better to be able to know how to do it perfect first. Than know how to control it and after that go and mess it up and make it look a 100 years old.

Post some photos on the Glass signs post.

Roderick

[Rob Schramm]

I can do them perfect but I dont want to start a re-silvering biz. I may consider it with Sarah's new spray stuff but who knows. I know that the above mentioned paints do a little tarnishing and actually if I want it to stay perfect I use Permalac spray lacquer and have had great luck with it. Truth be known I would love to do some stuff like what others are showing on here but honestly do not know how! I learn by seeing and I cannot follow written text but if you show me how to do it 1 time I will pick it up fast! Books do me no good as I really do not all the way comprehend what I read all the way. Posts are one thing as most good ones are short to medium but written step by stems are not for me. Show me a video even in fast forward and I will pick it up and once I know it I rarley forget.

[Rob Schramm]

Roderick or anyone,

Ok you have me interested in what barrier coat you are suggesting. Normally I back the antiqued mirror glass with rust-olium roll on semi gloss (oil). I have read that it is best to start with shellac is that true and will that stop any continuing of tarnishing?

Here is the thing, all I do is antiqued mirror glass which is just taking new plate glass and silvering it and antiquing it in the process. I normally do about 200 sf a month but in the last couple weeks (especially the last couple days) I have got slammed with 12 total orders and have 2 emails that I am just getting to answer tonight. Starting to think that my price for mirror is too cheap!

Well let me know about the suggestion you would make about barrier paint or coating.

Thanks
Rob

[Dave Dubé]

Rob,

I'm new to the forum, so please don't kick the newbie. I really like the mirror, and the only reason I'm replying is because I'd like to know if you have any historical information on this Cigar business. I'm not in the sign art any more. As a matter of fact I've been doing art on envelopes for thirty years, but that's another story. I've of late been putting my art work on old documents - letterheads, bills, receipts and invoices. I have a piece of their letterhead, and haven't done any research on it at all. I would send you a scan of what I have, but don't know if you're interested.

[Mike Jackson]

Hi Dave,
We all work darned hard not to ever kick "anyone", much less a newbie to the board! We love all the questions because they keep the board active and thriving.

You can click the link at the top of this forum titled "The Letterheads Site", then go to the Rawson & Evans section. You can read quite a bit about the old company and even see a photo of the original beveled glass piece in the intro page of the ST advertising section.

If you have information on either Rawson and Evans or United Cigar Co, we'd love to see it.

Cheers,
Mike Jackson

[Dave Dubé]

Rob,

I got your message, and decided I'd just attach the scan here on your post. If you want a higher res scan, I have it as well. I'd intended to put the cigar box liner (my art work) on this piece of paper, but I haven't decided whether or not I can put the liners for any of the three cigars mentioned on this piece without going over the top of the line items themselves. I'm also attaching a scan of what I've done to another piece of cigar store paper so you get the idea of what I'm doing.

[Rob Schramm]

Very cool, I sure wish I could get Thompson to send me 1000 cigars for that price! I get a box of Punch Cigars and its like $45 for 25!

[Rob Schramm]

Here is a website that had a couple of United Cigar Store companies catalogs from the 20's - 30's

http://www.the-forum.com/ephemera/UNITCIG.HTM

Here is the United Cigar Store Co. plant in the 20's in NYC. The other pic was money certificates from United.

[Dave Dubé]

Rob,

That's really nifty. And might I ask why you did the Cigar Store mirror? Just curious as to whether it was something you just wanted to do or if someone wanted it done.

You can have this piece of paper if you want it. All that I ask is that if you come across some piece of paper that needs a little embellishment, you'll return the favor. I'm kind of anxious to try some embossing on some of this paper so I can lay a little gold on it like the old cigar boxes were done.

If you do want it, send me an email with your snail mail addy and I'll send it.

[Rob Schramm]

Dave,

Everything in life to me seems to come down to funny chances of fate. I love NYC (from a distance as I am as small town as they come). There is 3 things in NYC that I want to see and we are going there this summer. First is Liberty, then the Brooklyn Bridge and finally and maybe the most interesting building that I have ever seen is the Flatiron Building. Now here is where the twist comes in, since I was a kid I have had tons of pics, postcards, arials and much more of the Flatiron Building and then a search on Cigar mirrors landed me with Mike Jackson and this board. I did the mirror for fun and did 3 others at the same time which sold rather quickly (much smaller) but until last week I had no idea that United Cigar was based out of the Flatiron Building. Since then I have gone crazy studing United Cigar and buying up a ton of memorablia like articles, ads and so on to learn more. If you are curious if that is their logo, it is! The mirror was a commisioned piece done by Rawson & Evans in I think 1900. I am in the process of designing a new way to do that image onto mirror as I want to bring it to life. I have a friend that does image art and he did work on Titantic's set for the movie with Kate Winslet. He is going to help me design a way to put the Flatiron Building into the background of the center opening to look like a watermark of the building shadowing the forground image of the design. Now we want to incorporate color, leaf and shadow effects into this along with glue chipping of the letters and some of the scroll work. This just may be the hardest thing that I have ever thought up but I want something when people see it will talk about it for a long time!
Thanks for the offer on the receipt, I am emailing you my address.

Rob

[Roderick Treece]

Well if your gonna smoke Punch you better get a Punch glass sign.This one is available.Glue chipped,antique silver mirrored with abalone ,mother of pearl and copper lettering.
Here's my version

Roderick
http://www.customglasssigns.com

[Rob Schramm]

Roderick,

I love your stuff and would love to have that mirror but I cannot afford it! Did you re-design the artwork? I love Punch cigars and a little Crown Royal. Beautiful mirrors, cant want til Sarah can teach me glue chipping! I am hoping next week but shes not calling me back.

Rob