Historically Replicated Signs

[Site Man]

OLD FORUM POSTS

Posted by Jimmy on January 16, 2004

Does anybody think that there is a market for
replicas of historic period signs(lets say 50 years and older), including the process by which they were designed and made, in historic districts?

Obviously, the integrity of existing architecture is highly regarded. So in determining whether other people, places and things(like signs) have, more or less, historical/economical significance in a business center, may also warrant some thoughtful consideration. Especially signs, because you have all seen the results of a policy to blend it all together, and how it neglects a counter balance of dynamics.

I think that it is also important to distinguish between those things worthy of historic preservation, and the living, breathing, and free market commercial business entities within a historic district that are certainly worthy of economic growth.

What kind of options would be at hand?

Larry WHite

Jimmy-
My wife and I journeyed up to "old Town" Sacramento awhile back. I had heard about the renovated historic district and it sounded like a nice place to visit. Of course I was excited about seeing a bunch of nice gold leaf windows and other elaborate signage ....not. I was very disappointed, there was very minimal gold leaf work, but a whole lot of ugly vinyl. A large portion of the vinyl didn't even have an old time flare to it. The lack of historic style signage truely robbed the place of an ombiance it could of had. I was dissapointed and probably won't be going back. It was old buildings selling ice cream and trinkets, but it wasn't a step back in time. Guess I'll go to Disneyland where they do it right. They really blew it up there, but then again, I'm just looking through my glasses. I love old signs, most the other tourists probably didn't even notice. I suppose there's a lot of other places like that too.

-LW

Jimmy Perkins

Hi Larry,

You are giving me the impression that you have probably melted down a few gelatin capsules while on your watch. Hummm?

Are you a sign-writer? Ever here of the color, "Dutch Pink"?

Civilization and advances in the industry demand
change, and that is just part of the reason so
many "historic villages" have re-evolved
into "contemporary styled", manufactured tourist traps. How crass!

Suffern, New Jersey is an example of one town that was once signed with gold and electricity. As it were, the book company across the way from the railroad crossing, and a few hundred gallons of paint from the "Old Town Tavern", and where a majority of the folks who lived there worked, is all but past its prime. Except for the sign at the watering hole and the refurbished movie house marque, most of the newer signs, if they even grab your attention, have been bastardized. Just
a little too much of the static.

Proponents of Historic Preservation, a branch of
the National Parks, within the Department of Interior, sealed this town and many more, their futures and fate, in the form of revitalization grants, thus preventing further decay. There in
lies, their purpose and terms.

The nature of the program creates a market socialism of sorts. An open market operation which collides and fills a void within a passing free market ideal, with the illusion of a re-manufactured free market village. Hummmm!

For whomever and whatever Business Improvement, and Community and Economic Developement clearing-
house programs are for, they certainly do not put much stock in decent signs.

I will bet you, if the business's that turned
over after two years, realized the value of their
worthless signs, and the value of their neighbors ineffective signs, which were paid for, and in accordance with grant criterior, and as a result, was a major factor for their failure, and not because of the poor management reason coming out of the Business Improvement office, that THEY WOULD take notice.

Loans, grants, one bank, and no cash flow in the
free market?

Larry White

I've been nursing an obession for reverse glass signage for about 16 years. You can check 'em out at walljewelry.com ...thanks for your perpective... -LW

Jimmy - Top Shelf Wall Jewelry

Wow!...LW, you are good at what you do. Thanks for
turning me on to your stuff.

Your pieces look so nice, yet is the design process necessarily an exacting one? It seems like it would be. Of course, you are a technical illustrator.

Don't mind me, but I am curious....Is it within
your skills to sight sign(no pattern) from the hip, and achieve the same results(mostly for letters), say if you were painting by hand? I bet you have.

Hey Larry thanks again,

Jimmy

Larry White

Hey Jimmy, thanks for the nice comments! I have painted letters in reverse without any pattern, but it makes me nervous. I still prefer to have a pounce pattern. All my stuff (except for a few of the commemorative letterheads pieces) are all hand done; hand drawn layout, hand cut masks, hand lettered, no computers, no screen printing. All old school baby! I have found that tight design layouts help in a tight finished piece, every element or transition needs a corresponding line in the layout. If you look close you'll see a common thread throughout my work in that a lot of the letter centers are developed from a (hand) cut mask, ie; glue chipped, sand carved, acid etched etc. I can cut (knife) a real tight letter, tighter than I can brush it. So when the glow lines or outlines are painted (around a chipped or etched center), there is already a line in the glass to follow. That line remains tight even though it's corresponding painted outer edge that is brushed may waiver slightly. The eye picks up the hard edge and makes the letter look tight. Slight imperfections add character. I think the hand done stuff has more of a warmth and character over the computer generated and printed ones. They're too perfect (no offense anyone). I do things the way I do them because that's the way I like to do them. I'd rather meditate with my paint brush than burn a silk screen. Most of the stuff on my website I own. I made it for myself, cause I just like doing reverse glass art.
...N.T.O. (nurse the obsession).
Take care- LW

Danny Baronian

Larry,

My wife and I go up there on occasion. One of the best ways in on the train, since it's only an hour from home, and it's a case of the journey being the best part, rather than the destination.

However - if you make several trips you'll notice why you see the signs you do. With the exception of a few anchor stores, the turnover rate is high. Stores are unwilling to spend for quality signage.

You want to see some nice signs, go to Lodi and see what Tony has done. Nice work.

Another interesting place is to visit by train is Bakersfield which can be done from the bay area as a one day trip. We went into old town, and it looks like it might have been the same for the last 40 - 50 years. The Woolworth's store is now an antique store, but the Woolworth's sign in front, with 16" high gold gilded letters on a red background is still quite impressive. The soda bar in the store is still the same too.

Danny

Mike Jackson

Hi Jimmy,
We always like it when people include their return email address with their post, so maybe next time you will...

I was hoping others would reply, but maybe they are like me, not sure exactly what you had in mind? I mean, are you talking about trying remake an old Budwieser sign from in front of a brewery, or a replica of the sign that was in front of the 1912 Industrial Revolution Exhibit at the Smithsonian? Or the old sign at the top of Teton Pass that said "Howdy Pardner, Yonder Lies Jackson Hole"? Without specifics, I don't think any of us can give you much of a clue on feasibility of reproduction old signs.

And, are you talking about mass produced replica signs, or just one-offs? High end prices, or just stuff for College dorms rooms? All I can honestly say is "It just depends".

Sorry I can't help more. I just didn't want you to feel neglected!

Mike Jackson

Jimmy

Hi Mike,

Being a hand lettering forum, that idea would be one way to go, so long as the form had similar results and authenticity. You know you can see the difference.

Yeah, real signs for real purpose and not necessarily mass produced signs used to give
ambiance to the interior of chain store. Like you said Mike , "One-Offs", but for sole proprietors in the Historic districts.

I like the older funky styles. Emphasize design and layout techniques from before the turn of the last century right on up into the 50's. And in six
more years, throw in the 60's!

I know there are some sign shops that have this niche already. I believe there is one such shop in Ohio.

The value of each sign? I suppose would depend on what the market dictates, but yeah you could fetch
high end bread for refined craftsmanship, like an electric sign with all the bells and whistles. The big sky is the limit. Big, small, crude and approached from outside of the square.

My hat goes off to all you sign folks, with sign
proposals in hand, that have to play jump rope with historical review boards. Your presentation must please the client and substantiate your reputation as well.

So if the game is called, "You Old Timers", then maybe this is a way to beat the critics at their own game.

Ah but then again, I'm an under achieving dreamer
juggling the past.

MEM-RIES, lights the corners of my mind...

Jim