Mirror Back-up Question

[Doug Bernhardt]

Here's a topic that was a little "mis-aligned" in so far as Rob here didn't receive any responses. So if he doesn't mind I thought posting it with a new topic a bit more appropriate, might get the question answered. There's a pile of talent here into this

I back almost all my antiqued mirror glass with rust-olium oil based paint (rolled on). So far I have never had a problem with it, but someone told me about 6 months ago about using 1shot insted. My question is (hopefully not too late) to gain my designs I apply vinyl to the back of the mirror reversed and then I paint in all the black or colored background first, then I allow that to harden 24 hours and then I re-clean, tin and silver the open areas. The reason I do it that way I call the dam effect, the light ridge of paint gives me something to allow me to get the paint to well in the design and the paint protects it from bleeding. Today I used 1shot but it seems to stay tacky a lot longer then the other paint I mentioned. So here is my questions:

1. How long do I have to wait before pulling the vinyl? I normally give 24 hours.
2. As long as it is cleaned properly will the paint bond well? I cannot afford jagged edges as I shoot for less then .001% away from perfect.
3. Is there something that I can add to the paint to get it to harden quicker and if so does that take anything away from the quality of the paint as I know normal cure time is always best.
4. Once I am able to pull the vinyl and 24 hours has past do I have to wait longer before I can clean for silvering and will the wetness effect the paint?

I think if I can get those answers that will help a lot.

Thanks and great site!!!

[Dan Seese]

Doug - very decent of you to re-post this for Rob.
Hello Rob & welcome to this site. I'll take a stab at this and hopefully my erroneous answers will rouse some of the more knowledgeable Dead Men from their sleep of death (Roderick, Larry, John, Patrick, Dave, etc.) and they will correct what I say here.
I have done very little mirroring, per se. But here are a couple of things you might consider:
I'm not really sure why One-Shot would be any better than the Rustoeum product you've used. One-Shot works ok but it does create a "bridge" between the painted glass & the mask so that when you remove the mask, the paint tends to lift & created the jagged edge you refer to. I find that there is a window of time when it works best to pull the mask, after the paint has set up just a little but before it really begins to skin over.
There is a hardner that One-Shot makes which speeds up the drying time considerably. It's important not to add more than 5% to the paint. It also, I believe, makes the paint more brittle, which may not be a problem in your application.
My preference, when using a mask, is to paint with Japan Colors. The Japan Colors adhere to the glass better than One-Shot (or other emamel paints) and when you pull the mask you get a much cleaner break since it doesn't form a skin to bridge that gap. Japan Colors need to be mixed with a liberal amount of varnish, but I'm not even sure what is the optimal amount to mix. I usually just wing it!
There really seems to be a number of ways to approach this and I just offer a couple of ideas for you.
OK, men. Hopefully you can clean up the mess I've begun.

[Rob Schramm]

I have Japan Colors here I dont know if I have black. What varnish are you putting it in? Can you give me some idea of ratios?

[Kelly Thorson]

If you have had good sucess with the Rustoleum, is there a reason to change? I think there are a number of ways to acheive the same thing. I plan on giving your Rustoleum a try.

Be careful with adding the 1-shot hardener to the paint, in addition to making it a bit more brittle and more prone to chipping, there have been some issues with it causing tarnishing especially with copper mirroring I believe.

[DAVE SMITH]

Hi there Rob.
The wetness will effect the paint,your best stay away from one shot as it was not designed for chemical silvering.
If you left the 1 shot to dry for a year with the hardner mixed in - it would lift after the first few minutes of soaking and cleaning that would be needed for silvering. Your best to buy Sericols 2 part ink it is called polyscreen ps it has an excellent adhesion to glass to the point of even trying to scratch it with a metal object is hard to mark.
The mix is 5 parts ink to 1 part catalyst, you need a palm scale for an accurate weight formula. There is a chemical reaction between the base and catalyst which you can also buy thinners for and retarders .Drying times vary from 1 hour drying or 5 hours this way it stays open for hand signwriting .At room temprature the drying is around 4 days but with a small fan heater its sets up in about 4 hours but you are best to leave it for the period of 4 days to obtain the incredible strenght it supplies for silvering. I still need to test it for hydroflouric but have not had the chance as yet. If i recall it stated the properties of this product was suitable for exceptional resitance to heat including soldering,chemicals, plastics ,metals and even ceramics, and most importantly for us here Resistance to mirror silvering processes.
There is a colour range also of 14 different colours . oh and its expensive a 1ltr pot half full is $160.. but well worth the money , you can hand that part to the customer. That said another way as i was shown by the silverer who taught me would be putting the vinyl down first, tin the glass mixing your stannous chloride at an important mix of 0.7 to 0.8 grams to 1000mls of distilled water silver the plate and then paint the back with mirror backing paint leave for one day and peel the vinyl off. The strength of the tin is at its best for striping vinyl at these measurements as the silver is well attached to the surface for easy pulling of the vinyl material. there are a number of other ways but these work for speed and success. hope this helps you somehow
Dave