Posted by D.Bernhardt on March 31, 2003
Hi folks....read something earlier mentioned and will bow to Dave Smiths experience here but i might as well add a bit to the discussion this far. Have read about this process and is actually called White acid and also French embossing or French acid. There is a good account given in the book victorian pubs by mark girouard.
Is a very low PH level acid mix and was a closley guarded secret last century. The mixture was apparently very diificult to get right and required conciderable time. I got a jar of something called etch-all some years ago that was available in craft stores...last time at conclave Rick had a shelf full of it and had good success. Some years earlier a few will remember Bill HUGE scrubbing down a glass piece with very fine silicone-carbide abraisive and water trying to achieve this effect. Rick preffered to use a screening squeege to get an even layer down and used guides on either side of the glass to regulate the(height) deposit. it was quite safe and results gorgeous. I have a large jar of the liquid at the shop but just havent messed with it yet. All the left over can be re-used if put back in the jar. The paste does tend to get dried-out during use.
Till later
Darryl Gomes
Mike JacksonI believe that the process with the water and the fine abrasive is called "grinding". You usually use a glass block like a sanding block and "grind" the glass with the abrasive in a circular motion. I haven't tried this but have read about it. I believe it creates a fabulous and even etch, but takes many hours.
I also did some research to find a formula for white acid. I found a recipe that uses hydrofluoric acid and sodium carbonate(not sodium bi-carbonate). I think that sodium carbonate is washing soda, I have not tried this mixture yet. I do a bit of acid/mica etching and hydrofluoric acid is very strong. The fumes are overwhelming. I have also used the Etch All cream and liked the results and the safety. I have found that the Etch All would get quite expensive if you needed large quantities.
Darryl Gomes
David SmithHi Doug,
Was that the process Bill was doing? I remember the little rails taped to the side and a piece of round plastic tubing or squeegee, and I remember generally hearing what they were trying to do. As I listened and watched...I got the feeling it was a lot of work with little "bang" at the end. I'll have to ask Bill about it.
I don't think the Etch-All material was really the same as White Etch, but I could be wrong. The stained glass shops have been selling that stuff (many brands) for a long time.
Mike
Danny BaronianHello everyone
I hope i can be of some assitance with the white Etching process.
Mike Jackson asked me to elaborate on the white acid process
Here is a brief discription of the white process .
WHITE ACID
The acid formula I use is volatile to explosion but used in the correct manner
it is safe. No different to using /mixing the raw silver chemicals For silvering.
When glass is exposed to white acid it it takes on a frosted appearance
3 TONES OF ACID
Tonings are made by first white aciding the total area of glass in use.
When this is finished I paint Ashphaltum to the parts I need to keep
as white acid and leaving the other areas to be toned exposed.
This is then etched to produce the half tones.When completed the areas to be
left in half tone are painted with the Ashphaltum acid resist or if you like
vinyl ,either way works just fine. which then the exposed area is etched again to produce the
full tones
Shading acids may vary in dilution or time of exposure.
acid from 4-1 or 3-1 can be used for half tones and left for about 20-25 mins
for weaker mixes, for stronger mixes around 12-15 mins
information on this process can be obtained by
purchasing a book called
SIGNWORK A CRAFTSMAN'S MANUAL
THE AUTHOR IS BILL STEWART I am not sure of the book co
but if you can find it it explains the whole process and some formulas.
Dave Smith
Hi Doug and Mike,
Referring to Bill Hueg and the acid process, I watched as Bill and several others built a dam around a glass piece, a Egyptian style image of Bill's daughter. I thought it was a two stage process, one of which they used a mica acid solution to produce a matted effect which was squeegeed over masked areas. Once that was complete they were taken in back where Rick - in sandals as usual, poured hydrofluoric acid into the dammed area of the leveled glass to etch the entire piece. I have pictures of this with Rick, Noel Weber and Bill Hueg working outside behind Rick's shop. There have also been pictures posted of this process on one of the BBS. Noel and Bill would know more about it since they were doing the process with Rick, and possibly have pictures of the end result.
I sent Mike a copy of the acid process from that meet so he may be posting it on the green site. As far as I know, this process is not as volatile as White Etching.
Etch All is not the same as White Etching. I've tried Etch All, hoping to replace frosting with another method we were doing for a customer, but it took too long, and only produced a very weak frost.
This is the process I saw, but maybe not the one referred to in the post. Anyone have more information on this?
BTW, thanks for the link to Bill's site. Nice!
Danny
Mike Jackson
Hi Danny,
Yes, that was the project I remember. I just tried calling Bill, but after about 10 rings I remembered he is now working at Elich Gardens in Denver during the day. I'll catch him later tonight.
I remember it being a two-step process, but as I said earlier, I did't see much bang for the buck in the end results. Of course, I was looking at it as a reverse glass and gold image. The double etching described earlier makes some sense, but I don't recall how it related to "white etch". The hydroflouric acid bath Rick normally used didn't leave any sort of white residue.
I have never tried to write an article about acid etching in any trade magazine, knowing how dangerous the stuff is to work with. I hesitate to even write it on this web site for the same reasons, and if the formula for the White Etch is so volitile (exposions possible), I am even more hesitant. I don't know how much liability I might take on personally writing an article, even if I added all the disclaimers.
If anyone does remember exactly what Noel, Bill, and Rick were trying to achieve, I'd still like to hear about it. The glue or wax dam mentioned earlier were to hold the acid solution, but in the other process, Bill had a little thin strip of plastic on each side of his glass to try to apply the acid paste in equal amounts across the entire piece of glass.
Mike
Mike Jackson - Speaking of Bill Hueg, check out his beautiful site
Peacock Studios / Bill HuegI don't think Bill is totally comfortable with a computer yet, but he does have a very beautiful web site...well worth the visit.
Check it out!
Mike Jackson
http://www.billhueg.com/
Dan Sawatzky
-danAwesome stuff! Murals, glass, sculpture, ALL of it is awesome! I love the site too!
Doug Again
Mike Jacksonno probs....i realise the two are different but the results are quite similar
also...was talking to Dave Smith today and he mentioned that it is explosive ONLY if you mix it too fast.Will send you a picture of a completed project we saw in England last fall and feel free to post it here Goldie!
Ha, Ha,
Doug, you just want to see me blow myself up! How do you know when it is the right speed? It would be obvious if you went too fast.
Mike
More Doug
Mike JacksonWell...please don't blow up that new garage of yours....so when you pour the acid into the sodium (i think darryl above has it) you do it over a 5 minute period....slower the better according to Smitty
Doug Bernhardt sent me this photo that I beliede Dave McDonald shot while in England at a Letterheads meeting. I am assuming the frosted areas are White Etch, if I read Doug's note correctly.
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads