I finish my signs with four coats of clear. I like a gloss finish.
Will I get better adheason between undercoats if I use semi-gloss? Do I still have to scuff between coats? (This is why I'm really asking....can I eliminate the scuffing?)
Thanks in advance!
Joe
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semi-gloss undercoats for better adheason?
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joe cieslowski
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semi-gloss undercoats for better adheason?
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
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Kent Smith
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semi gloss
Just because the appearance of the clear is semi-gloss, does not mean that it has a texture or roughness to the surface. Most clears now use a chemically altered resin or solution additive that gives the appearance of being low gloss without compromising the finished film with physical texture. Adding a soloid to any clear will give it a lower gloss and give it more texture because it interrupts the dried film. This does not always improve adhesion however, because the film is only adhering where it is not interrupted.
On another front, don't be confused by the liqauid sanding aids that the retail market sells. Rather than add texture, they typically expose the resin, rewetting it or breaking the dried film. While this may somewhat aid adhesion, they can just as easily harm the undercoat enough that it will fail, causing an overall failure. I have a old can of one which states that it is not to be used on finishes which will have outdoor exposure or exposure to "strong" light......exactly.
Having said all that, it is better to lightly sand between coats. Note that it does not have to be a readily visible scratching of the surface, just a light touch with 600 or higher grit to barely break the surface tension so that subseqent coats can get a good grip ont he undercoat. On the size of project you are typically doing, you should not have to wear your arm out.
On another front, don't be confused by the liqauid sanding aids that the retail market sells. Rather than add texture, they typically expose the resin, rewetting it or breaking the dried film. While this may somewhat aid adhesion, they can just as easily harm the undercoat enough that it will fail, causing an overall failure. I have a old can of one which states that it is not to be used on finishes which will have outdoor exposure or exposure to "strong" light......exactly.
Having said all that, it is better to lightly sand between coats. Note that it does not have to be a readily visible scratching of the surface, just a light touch with 600 or higher grit to barely break the surface tension so that subseqent coats can get a good grip ont he undercoat. On the size of project you are typically doing, you should not have to wear your arm out.
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Doug Bernhardt
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Yeo Joe....I was hoping Kent would reply to this as I really don't know the products you are using. My approach is to have a satin finish at the end as I like that look and still use oil primers. So hey....don't be so lazy and get back to work sanding!! ;=) I don't think I could live with the idea that something good isn't tons of work!
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joe cieslowski
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Roderick Treece
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Good day to all,
This topic could go in so many directions.
I'm with Kent on the very lite sanding 600 and up or even 0000 steel wool works great.
If you want to have your final sheen be satin use your 3-4 coasts of gloss ,sand in between coat going finer with each coat.
Then in the end let the gloss clear dry real hard.Come back and do a furniture finish by rubing down the surface with as fine a steel wool you can find plus paste wax or good quility finish car wax.That gives the finish a very nice satin patina.Also a good coat of wax will help seal it.By the way It will still gloss paint ,which is super exterior.
I just had a client call to ask if I could come and touch up a 6 year old double sided hand painted sign.I originally used all gloss one shots.
The sheen was flat by now.I washed it down and gave it a couple of coats of car wax,bingo the sign looks close to new.Try doing that when the vinyl starts to peel.Sorry I could help myself.The goverment says we sold a million vinyl signs last year!
On to the topic of what makes paint defferent sheens.
After doing alot of calling around and research I found that most paint companies will not tell that they use fumed silica to go from gloss to satin to flat.Even if you buy automotive liquid paint flattner it's made from fumed silica(Amorphous Silicone Dioxide).I'm sure there are other thing as well but it seemed to be one of the most used things I found.
One great thing is after calling a few companies Iwas able to receive samples,lots of sample .So many in fact that I won't ever need to buy flating agents for my paint again.
One company I contacted in DEGUSSA.
One note is that premixed liquide flattners mix it to the paint much easyier .So if you do use a powdered form it must be mixed throughly and strained a few times to get the lumps out.
Good luck
Roderick
This topic could go in so many directions.
I'm with Kent on the very lite sanding 600 and up or even 0000 steel wool works great.
If you want to have your final sheen be satin use your 3-4 coasts of gloss ,sand in between coat going finer with each coat.
Then in the end let the gloss clear dry real hard.Come back and do a furniture finish by rubing down the surface with as fine a steel wool you can find plus paste wax or good quility finish car wax.That gives the finish a very nice satin patina.Also a good coat of wax will help seal it.By the way It will still gloss paint ,which is super exterior.
I just had a client call to ask if I could come and touch up a 6 year old double sided hand painted sign.I originally used all gloss one shots.
The sheen was flat by now.I washed it down and gave it a couple of coats of car wax,bingo the sign looks close to new.Try doing that when the vinyl starts to peel.Sorry I could help myself.The goverment says we sold a million vinyl signs last year!
On to the topic of what makes paint defferent sheens.
After doing alot of calling around and research I found that most paint companies will not tell that they use fumed silica to go from gloss to satin to flat.Even if you buy automotive liquid paint flattner it's made from fumed silica(Amorphous Silicone Dioxide).I'm sure there are other thing as well but it seemed to be one of the most used things I found.
One great thing is after calling a few companies Iwas able to receive samples,lots of sample .So many in fact that I won't ever need to buy flating agents for my paint again.
One company I contacted in DEGUSSA.
One note is that premixed liquide flattners mix it to the paint much easyier .So if you do use a powdered form it must be mixed throughly and strained a few times to get the lumps out.
Good luck
Roderick
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads