Backing Up With Shellac

Bobbie Rochow · Post by **Bobbie Rochow** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:46 pm

I went & bought me some Bullseye Clear Transparent Shellac today, for my glass work. After I got home with it, I returned to Rick's page on Shellac, to see that the spray can of it would have been fine to buy, since I assume he meant to spray the whole piece, right?

So here is my question, ok? I have made up 2 glass pieces for gifts, & I have already applied the black outline with One Shot black with hardener added to it. I have never attended a workshop, so maybe there are other ways to do it, but this will have to do for now, while I practice. Ok, how do I apply this shellac to these pieces? I will post a picture of one of the pieces so you can see what I am talking about. Do I just take a paint brush or foam brush & coat the whole piece with shellac, then go ahead & leaf it, say with copper or silver, then apply another coat of shellac to protect the backside of the leaf too? Hope you all understand what I am trying to explain! ...do I need to paint a barrier of shellac on either side of the enamel paint, the leafs, & all things?

Thank you so much!

Here is the piece...

John Studden · Post by **John Studden** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:14 pm

Bobbie, A light coat of Aerosol shellac would be a lot easier & faster, after leafing back it up with a simlar color, the easiest way would be to pick a close color of bronzing powder & mix it with some one-hour size. you do not need shellac after that. If you were doing a lot of blended panels etc. you could continue to use it as a protective barrier beween techniques.

We are holding a workshop covering all of these techniques in Boise in May. John

John Studden · Post by **John Studden** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 pm

......after posting I realised that I did not know if you had already gilded & backed up with the black or if it was just a black o/l & you were going to water gild over that ?

If it had alredy been water gilded shellac may have been the next step....if not water gilding could have been. If it was just matte center treatments kaolin would have worked followed by the gold size & the the leaf & then bronzing powders.....

Sorry to have jumped the gun, If you are as confused as me give me a call.......

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:30 pm

Bobbie,
I am confused about why you are needing Shellac at this stage? If you are trying to get a matte gild, you'd probably want to use One Shot gold size (a lot of different mediums would also work). Shellac isn't normally recommended between the glass and a water gild, but more to act as a barrier coat between oddball layers of paint, varnish, and ink.

You might reply with what effects you are going after, then some of us can help you with a general road map of the sequences and materials.

Mike Jackson

Bobbie Rochow · Post by **Bobbie Rochow** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:10 pm

OK, remember in my last post about silver tarnishing? Well, this panel, & the other one I have that is similar, will have maybe copper leaf & possibly the varigated leaf. I am almost out of silver, but I do have aluminum, but would you even suggest aluminum on a piece like this? You would not water gild the aluminum, I am sure. The other piece I have I MIGHT water gild (with gold of course), not sure yet. You see, I only have copper, varigated, aluminum, a little silver, and not a lot of gold left right now. Business has been very slow, & I truly want to bless 2 people in my life who are blessing me, & my supplies are limited for now, but that is ok! Little by little, & I sure do appreciate what I have! I also plan to reverse paint these pieces, like the leafy scrolls on this one pictured, I would like to paint in greens. (my supplies are quite limited!) I am hoping that if my hand in the reverse painting comes out nice enough, it may have a beauty of it's own to add to the rest of the piece. You spoke in the other post of mine about stippling the paint, instead of brush strokes. With a fitch? Will an old soft sable do?

OK, the outlines are in One Shot, & they cannot touch the copper leaf or anything else I put on there that will tarnish, right? So I planned on shellacing over that piece with the black outlines (pictured), that way it will be safe to copper leaf those letters on it, & the leaf can appear as it is touching the black outlines too, because it will be protected. Then, like I was asking you, do I need another barrier of shellac behind that copper leaf too?

Would you suggest I return the liquid quart of shellac & get the spray can of it? It is quite a drive!

ps...I know I do not have a lot of fancy supplies to use, but I really think I can make these look nice with what i do have, please bear with me, ok? Thank you!

ps again, sorry....If I copper leaf, should I size it on, & avoid the water gilding?

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:30 pm

Bobbie,
If you did all your black outlines with One Shot, your really don't have to worry about it causing the tarnishing. They are referring to "backing up" the aluminum, copper, or varigated leaf...meaning the paint you put on the back of the leaf once you have it surface gilded to the glass. I think you can sleep well enough for a long time just using OneShot gold size for that. In this case, you'd leaf the varigated zones using OneShot, fill in all your decorative leaf elements, then spray the BullsEye over the entire back side. Than back up the entire decorated area with black and let it dry. Once all is dry, you can use alcohol to dissolve the shellac that is all over the clear glass without affecting the rest of the painted zones.

You are asking for a lot of problems trying to water gild aluminum, varigated leaf, or copper. It is awfully thick and difficult to use that way. Even though you are on a budget, trying to use the water gild technique is going to make things a LOT harder than it should be for your first pieces. Wait until you can get some real gold for that.

Also, if you have the money or can swing it, try to make it out to Noel's for their next gold leaf workshop. You'd get a lot of questions answered, but more importantly, you'd learn when and where to use certain techniques and materials.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson

Bobbie Rochow · Post by **Bobbie Rochow** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:42 am

Thank you so much, Mike. I can understand what you are telling me quite well. I think I will take back the quart of shellac & get that spray can. John was right, it will be much easier.

I guess I can go ahead with my pieces! Thank you!

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:15 am

I should mention one other thing....I seldom ever back up copper, aluminum, or varigated with black paint. Speaking broadly, ANY void in the "gold" layer is still a void and will usually show up, however instead of backing up with black, many mix up some bronzing powder or mica powder in with a clear (One Shot Gold Size works fine), then back up with at least one quick layer before putting down a black layer. As with all the other concerns, the main issue is not to use any sort of back up varnish or size that will possibly tarnish the underlying leaf. If you went through all these steps, there really isn't a need to spray a coat of clear shellac. Personally, I'd keep the can of shellac for a future need and get a can of One Shot Gold Size. You'd use that a lot. You might also want to try to find a can of Clear Fibroseal. It dries very fast and would be my choice to mix in with the bronzing powder or mica powder to get a slightly metallic safety zone between the "gold" and the black back up. In this case, the black back up is really added just to make the sign look good on the back side if ever seen. If you were going to put the piece in a frame, you might not even need it at all.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson

Billy Pickett · Post by **Billy Pickett** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:13 pm

...Bobbie, I admit that am not totally informed about how Rick G. used shellac, but I have made many reverse pieces over the years and have NEVER used it. Maybe I am missing something, but the things I have done all still appear to be in good shape without any shellacing involved.

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:23 pm