Re-attaching loose paint

[James Warwick]

Has anybody had any success re-attaching loose and flaking paint back on glass?
Any suggestions?

[Kent Smith]

Are you referring to antique paint or more recent?

[James Warwick]

Hi Kent..
I'm referring to ROG signs from 1880-1920..

[Mike Jackson]

Okay, I'll bite. What is ROG glass?
Mike Jackson

[DAVE SMITH]

Hi James.
Are you talking about Reverse On Glass? (ROG) If you are I have had success with w-w window spar varnish with a small amount of terpentine mixed in. I have used it on 1900 pieces to re-attach the loose paint. I mainly try and keep as much as the original paint .Remove really bad flakes take care of any bright work and colour work then apply a thin coat to the whole back of the piece,once this is painted I turn the piece over so your looking directly at the glass sign from the viewing side place it on wooden blocks . The varnish is thin enough to go between the loose paint and repels upwards into the loose areas and soaks the loose areas which finally adhere themselves back to the glass.
That is one waywhich works for me ..I expect there is others.
Dave

[James Warwick]

Sorry Mike..
I thought ROG (reverse on glass) was a commonly used term. It must be more of a collectors term than a sign trade term.

Thanks for your reply Dave...
It sounds very interesting and I will try it soon.
Questions: Do the loose flakes soften, flatten out, and re-attach to the glass?
Or are they just held in place?
Do the air bubbles disappear or do you need to go in and remove them later?

[DAVE SMITH]

James.
The collectors use that term from time to time over here just dawned on me reading your post , I also remember Rick using that term ROG. As for the flakes depending how big they are if some of them have curled you may have a bit of task flattening them out if at all.

The varnish if thin enough should creep underneath and sit there and re-attach them .worth checking over for bubbles but it should just grip it all back to the glass.
can you post a few pics? to get a better idea what you up against.
Dave

[Kent Smith]

I agree with Dave but would add that quick size, fast size and quick rubbing can also be used. If the original paints appear to be Japans, which is often the case, either quick rubbing or Florence Japan varnish is preferred. Japans are always self-solvent but only if you use a solvent base that will rewet them enough that they will lay down. When you saturate the area, place the glass level and in a cool area, about 50 to 60 degrees F. This will give the solvents in the varnish time to work. On really curled areas it is possible to add a retarding reducer to slow the drying process. The reality is that some of the areas will not rewet or lay down, dpeneding upon how many coats of paint there are in that spot and how long it has been curled up. It will always look like it has been repaired though, never like the original. Sometimes you can work a little color into the area to help cover the cracks etc. This can be done during the process if you have confidence in matching and experience or after it has been well sealed.

Good Luck.

[Doug Bernhardt]

I would only add that I recall Daddy Fine Gold using this same process, as described above, and remarking with some pride as to how well it worked.

[James Warwick]

Thanks... Dave and Kent..
You have been a Great help !

I was told many years ago to use linseed and ?
Well, I can tell you linseed oil is not something you want to use..
I have been experimenting in different areas on one piece of glass and have come up with a good formula. When I'm sure of it I will post. It puts it down like concrete.

Paint matching trick:
Get a small piece of glass the same color and thickness as the glass that you are trying to repair. Place the glass on the front of the glass your repairing. Place a Pantone chip under the glass next to the area that you want to repair. change the chip til you get a match. Now mix your paint to match the chip. Whamo... a perfect fool proof match !!
Write the Pantone number down for future reference.

Any ideas on the paint or paint formula to use? I have been using Japan and clear Fibersol. It tends to want to seperate.

Thanks for your help...

[Kent Smith]

Using any varnish with Japan is merely to add resin and flow enhancement. The pigment is too heavy to stay in suspension when mixed INTO varnish. Just about any Japan varnish or gold size can be used with the pigmnets. Linseed oil can be worked into old oil based pigments to help soften them and can be used for blending when matching oil color pictorials. They should be used in moderation along with a "finishing" varnish like fibroseal, bulletin spar or SF Clear as the main ingredient. The two types of paint pigments should not be confused in the way they are mixed or applied. Some suggest using linseed to allow blending of lettering or bulletin enamels but then they become too slick for glass. Linseed oil also will not work with Japans in the same way. As a side note, it is possible to make a great wood stain for more porous hardwoods using Japan colors and linseed oil.

Reducers are also critical in glass work. Never use mineral spirits for anything except as a cheap brush cleaner because it is too oily. Turpentine can be used but using either high temp or low temp can reduce the paint by using less volume, which is preferrable for such a slick surface as glass. While some circumstances can temp you to use Lacquer thinner, acetone or their cousins, they can burn the resins, causing them to flake off.

Keeping a variety of glass for color matching is always a good idea, especially when doing restoration work. Keeping written records and swatches on the glass, marked with a sharpie helps for long term matching. I personally don't mix to color charts of any type but your suggestion has merit for those who do.