Best materials for the job?

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:29 am

I was wondering what the best paint or ink would be for painting reverse on glass for solid color and blends. I have been using the back up mixture for a mask of one shot 50%, japan black50% and hardener. Can I use this combo for backing up with a brush if thinned?

Also I have just used the asphaltum for a resist for glue chipping. Can it be used for back up as well? I'm a newbie that's been reading all of Glawsons's and all you vets. here on the forum material and admiring all of you guys fine work.

Before I start buying more supplies I want to get a idea of what type on materials work best for glass work (chipping reverse painting etc.)and if possible stick to one type. Thanks in advanced and I will post pictures of the first glue chipped panel I'm working on soon.

Aaron

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:11 pm

When painting color areas on glass, I like to use Japan color (with some clear Fibroseal added). Rick would say that the Japan colors were more true to the colors used on the old originals. However, I just might be in the minority. I think most folks are using One-Shot. Whether One-Shot or Japan color, I rarely use the color straight from the can. I typically like to mix up a unique color, then add a touch of it's compliment color to "gray" it out a bit. Care needs to be used when blending colors, because sometimes they can get "muddy". Best to do a test sample prior to the actual execution. If handpainting black outlines etc, I will use One-Shot or Back-up Black as it flows better in a brush than Japan. I've never mixed the One-Shot and the Japan together.

I'll use Asphaltum to back-up silver, as it won't tarnish the silver as many back-ups can. However, the asphaltum must be sealed with shellac prior to any application of solvent based paint over it, as the paint will reactivate the asphaltum. Whenever I do a brush blended background, I like to seal the entire piece with Shellac. It never hurts to have that protective barrier.

There are many types of products. Some work better than others. Some work the same as others, and it becomes a matter of personal preference. Information on just about any product or technique, can be found somewhere on this forum. For anyone new to this craft, I would recommend Noel & John's Gold Leaf Workshop.

-Aho!

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:33 pm

Thanks Larry you work truly is inspiriting to me!

Does the fibroseal help the flow? I found out about the one shot trick from reading a article in a signcraft about gold on glass. Seems to work but sets up quickly with hardener in it.

Would you use the Asphaltum to back up angel gilds, copper and galena aswell? I like the Shellac trick! After backing up with Asphaltum would you apply any other coating for a finish seal for a completed piece?

I email John S. the other day, my plan for the next year is to attend one of these workshops. Any one know when the next one is?

thanks
-at

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:18 pm

One more thing is there a preference in paint mask adhesives for glass work? You can get a water base or solvent base adhesive with paint mask. I'm using oracal water base adhesive as of now.

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:17 am

Japan colors lay in well on glass and dry to a flat finish which appears richer through the glass. While they can be used direct from the container or intermixed, the addition of a Japan varnish gives them flow out, better durability and cleaner intermixing. Any Japan varnish can be used, depending upon dry times, adhesion issues and possible subsequent coats. Withour a varnish, Japan colors are also self-solvent and subject to lifting with applicaitons of varnishes or enamels. All "light" varnishes tend to be Japans and include: Florence, Venus, Fibroseal, Quick Rubbing, quick size, fast size and to some degree, real Bulletin spar. Because of the surface tension of Japans and Japan varnishes, they tend to adhere better to glass than do alkyd enamels such as lettering or bulletin enamels. They also will tend to be less transparent than enamels. I would suggest those who are just beginning to use Japan colors, stick to Fibroseal, Quick Rubbing or Quick Size as a mixing varnish. Once you become familiar with the working characteristics of Japans, then you will be able to experiment with other varnishes. Since Japan colors are pure pigment, ground in a Japan varnish, they can be mixed in almost any varnish, lacquer, acrylic or urethane, with various results. As a matter of interest, Model T Fords were painted first with Japan black, then overcoated with two to three coats of clear lacquer, all using a 6 inch long pure hog bristle brush. Many would last over 50 years.

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:11 pm

Thanks Kent! I reread the book last night. It seems that everything is better understood now that I have been experimenting! I'm working on a sample for my self consisting of a glue chipped background with a block shade letter with gold matte center. I have not received my angel gild kit yet. I wanted to do a antique style mirror back ground on the glue chipped part. I applied composition Silver leaf(aluminum) water guilded with a stout mix. It seems that it held pretty decent but it took a long while to dry on the first guild (because of thickness of leaf?) For the second guild I reapplied the leaf over the entire first guild and let it dry over night. Would asphaltum be good for backing up the aluminum leaf? After back up I will apply the mask to the center where the letter will be, paint in quick size for matte centers and then black outline with japan black and quick size(should I add hardener?) and remove mask. This is the plan anyway does all this sound like the correct process for this piece?

I'm sure I will have to add washing soap to the water size when guilding the gold leaf over the quick size. Would the asphaltum be good for backing up the gold letter? I know it's a lot of questions but I'm like a sponge that wants to learn. I have been reading this whole year about glass work and I'm ready to start putting the thing I have read into action. Very excited about this craft and can not wait to attend a workshop!

Thanks to all for the reply's and for share this art with me!

-at

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:27 pm

Buy the way, where can I purchase Commonwealth Fibroseal?

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:53 pm

First, I have never had success water gilding aluminum. I would used silver or white gold.

I would gild the matte center directly on the size once it has obtained a tack, not water gild with detergent.

Last I knew, Fibroseal was available from letterheadsignsupply.com

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:56 am

Thanks for the tips Kent. I thought I would try the aluminum since I had some here and it was pretty inexpensive. Thought I would practice before I used the good stuff.

I wanted the letter to have a brite line of gold and a matte center. I thought I could do this all at once by applying the vanish to the center and leafing the whole letter. Would it be better to leaf the matte center when it's up to tack and then water guild over?

Thank you for taking time to reply and your help and advice.

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:44 am

Yes, that would be the easiest way.

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 pm

Well here is the first glass piece I have completed besides small samples. These are for my two daughters, new born Bridget and 3year old Mia. I tried applying composite silver leaf with no luck. I ended up silvering with a angle gild kit, which was very fun! This was a good learning curve for me, some of the gold leaf did not go down smoothly as I wanted (getting the hang of the smithie tip and still not as good as a four year old) used a combo of regular tip and the smith. Also I blasted a little to much on the mask and the asphltum started to get a ragged edge that I had to clean up before chipping. It was going to have matte centers but I wanted to start with the basics first, I will try matte centers next.

Looking forward to the next piece to fill my house with. I plan on filling up the house with glass pieces so I can get the time in I need.

Thanks to all of you who inspire me and help me with my new journey! I love this stuff...total hooked.

-at

Wayne Osborne · Post by **Wayne Osborne** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:52 am

Stunning results Aaron -Nice one!

DAVE SMITH · Post by **DAVE SMITH** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:43 am

Nice work Aaron.
Looks like you also have the bug for glass now.
Dave

Jerry Berg · Post by **Jerry Berg** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:18 am

Looks Good!

John Studden · Post by **John Studden** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:46 am

Aaron, You are well on the way, It will almost certainly become addictive, keep up the good work....................

Aaron Taylor · Post by **Aaron Taylor** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:07 am

Thanks everyone for the nice comments. I got the bug for sure!